What $40M Companies Get Completely Wrong About RevOps

Brendan Talson, CEO of Rev Partners, explains why so many scaling businesses try to grow through sheer force instead of reducing friction. When companies hit the $20M-$40M mark, they often default to hiring more sales reps rather than building an underlying revenue engine. This leads to scaling chaos rather than scaling systems, as broken processes buckle under the weight of increased volume and data. RevOps, when implemented correctly, operates at the vital intersection of strategy and tactical execution to weaponize data. It provides the clarity, confidence, and outcomes that revenue leaders need to make informed decisions. Without RevOps, leaders are left guessing why they hit or missed their numbers. By viewing RevOps as a revenue-driver rather than a cost burden, companies can accurately forecast, improve conversion rates, and build a cohesive go-to-market engine that actually drives predictable growth.

Discussed in this episode

• Why most $40M companies still lack dedicated RevOps and wrongly view it as a cost burden.
• The fundamental difference between increasing force by adding headcount versus reducing friction by optimizing systems.
• The dangers of scaling chaos by throwing generic AI tools at broken underlying GTM processes.
• How true RevOps must sit in the Goldilocks zone between high-level strategy and tactical CRM execution.
• Why simply hitting your revenue target is useless if you don't know the exact data-backed reasons why.
• Forward-looking leading indicators for Customer Success, including product usage and time since last purchase.
• The emerging trend of RevOps reporting to the CFO due to a market shift toward profitable, sustainable growth.
• The operational distinction between RevOps system design and GTM Engineering demand orchestration.

Episode highlights

1. 0:00 — Why RevOps is viewed as a cost burden
2. 2:15 — Scaling systems vs. scaling chaos
3. 4:30 — The danger of magic pill AI solutions
4. 7:00 — The evolution from Sales Ops to true RevOps
5. 10:15 — The Goldilocks zone of strategy and execution
6. 13:20 — RevOps vs. GTM Engineering explained
7. 15:45 — Do you know why you hit your number?
8. 18:30 — Leading indicators for CS and PLG
9. 21:10 — Why RevOps is shifting to the CFO
10. 25:00 — Rapid fire: Go-to-market metrics and tools

Key takeaways

• View RevOps as a revenue multiplier.
• Reduce friction instead of scaling chaos.
• Bridge the gap between strategy and execution.
• If you guess, your system is broken.
• Modern CROs must be financially literate.

Transcript

I think more often than not, it's viewed as a cost burden as opposed to a revenue add. 40 plus million dollar companies that we work with, don't have a dedicated even a part-time RevOps person. a CEO, a founder, a CRO is going to say, I'd rather just have add a an AE or an SDR. They associate that role with revenue generating.

You can either increase force, meaning you add more people or you can reduce friction. Um and that is really the value from a RevOps perspective. Welcome back to another episode of the Bridge the Gap podcast powered by Revenue Reimagine. Today's guest is Brendan Talson, CEO and co-founder of Rev partners and one of the strongest voices currently pushing companies to rethink how they build their revenue engine.

He and his team act as an in-house RevOps function for scaling companies helping align sales, marketing and customer success before things break. This episode's going to be about why most companies wait too long to invest in RevOp, something we are super passionate about. What actually breaks when you do wait too long and how to build a GTM system that scales without chaos. Brandon, welcome to the show, man.

That was quite the intro. I appreciate it. You're right. No, the only reason I'm here.

I mean, you crushed it, so. Hard to live up to that intro, but I it's great to be here, guys. Um, this is a fun topic and uh, excited to see where where we go. Yes, so that is the only reason why we keep him here, so, um, yeah, you you give him a little bit of a process right again.

So, um, what you do is very interesting because we have this challenge in a lot of our clients we go into, even, you know, $20, $40 million, there's no RevOps. But when you start getting into RevOps, one of the things you say a lot is most companies don't scale systems, they scale chaos. So, what do you mean by when they don't scale systems, but they're scaling chaos? Well, I I you know, I think you're uh there's a lot there.

Um, and so yeah, I mean, I I think a lot of people try to apply force to growth and that's um, that's natural, right? It's like, hey, we want to grow therefore we need to add people to it and we need to do more activity. Um, and uh while that certainly can be true, um, there's also uh second order effects as a result of that. And so the proliferation of data, the proliferation of activity, um, it just gets very, uh, uh you see a lot of problems very fast when that happens because when you force things in and you don't have a clean system, um, that your word chaos in that example is really where we start to see it.

And, um, making sure especially in this day of AI and the and the need for trust, um, and brand becomes really important. If you just continue to add gas to something that's already that's not set up properly, it's going to have the unexpected or I shouldn't say unexpected. It's going to have the adverse uh effect of what you want and instead of attracting people, you're actually going to repel people. Wow.

And so go ahead. Nope. Go. I I was just going to say, it's really interesting because even with AI and a lot of these other things that are happening, people are they they don't stop to actually look at how to look build a system or they understand it conceptually and how to build a system but they just decide I don't know, we'll put more technology, more AI, more things at it.

So I I love the idea of like, you're if you don't build those systems, you're just going to be scaling crap and and that's not a good way to scale. Well, yeah, there's just there's no, everybody wants like, you know, everybody wants easy button, right? Uh, and so all these tools are promising to solve your your problems. Um, I mean, it's like losing weight.

I guess there are now, uh magic magic pills. But Yeah. You know, historically, there it's like you have to do the hard work. Um, and the same applies to like from a system perspective.

You need to have a foundation set up properly to then put the gas on it and often times people just don't want to do that because uh well there's a lot of reasons. I'm sure we'll unpack that but yeah, the foundation has to be built, um, before you can really start to orchestrate the the desired demand activity that you're looking for. Why Why why do people wait so long? Because there's so much in in my opinion, hidden cost of not investing in RevOps early.

Like and Dale wasn't joking. Like we we tell people it should be one of if not the first go-to-market hires you make, yet 40 plus million dollar companies that we work with don't have a dedicated even a part-time RevOps person. Yeah. Well, I think it's, I mean, there there's probably a lot of reasons, but I think more often than not, it's it's viewed as a cost burden as opposed to a revenue add.

Uh and when you have a finite budget, um, people are, I mean, a CEO, a founder, a CRO is going to say, I'd rather just have add a an AE or an SDR, um, who I know is going to or at least in their minds, they they associate that role with revenue generating. And for a RevOps person, that just feels like I'm just adding cost on to my, um, on to my team and that's generally what we see. Um, but yeah, to your point, what what the what they don't see is actually the we talk about force and friction, right? So you can either increase force, meaning you add more people or you can reduce friction.

Um, and that is really the value from a RevOps perspective is, if you get the right person that see the the efficiency, productivity gains, um, is is demonstrable and and you see the ROI from that, but, um, that that's the common reason that we see is it just they can't they can't associate it to a revenue gain. Yeah, and it's interesting, like if I had a CRO coming in and one of their first hires wasn't a RevOps person, I wouldn't bring them in as a a CRO. Like, a good RevOps person is the light blood of a CRO so that you can make decisions because maybe it's not hiring the next salesperson. Maybe it's actually reducing your staff because 75% of them aren't hitting quota or they're at 60% of quota and like, they just get they just don't do that analysis.

Yeah, and it's hard too. I mean, if you haven't If you haven't experienced the benefit, then it's really hard to justify it, candidly. I mean, I the first time that I saw like what RevOps was was possible, I was at a software company, we were going between our series A and series B. So that's when I joined, so we were about $3 million in ARR and was on that ride from $3 million to $100 million.

And I remember when our VP of sales, I think he was a VP, it might have been a CRO at that point. But he was like, hey, we're hiring a sales ops person. And I was like, what the heck is that? Um, and like, why why are we even like, this doesn't make a lot of sense.

Clearly he knew what he was doing. But the, uh, I mean, she became to where you're going with that Dale, like she became his right hand. She ran the meetings for like our pipeline review, was always like driving process adoption and doing the reporting, the visibility. And so when I think about like the value of RevOps, I mean, where you were going is we talk about three core components.

Um, it's clarity, confidence and then outcomes. So, like, hey, clarity of understanding what's working, what's not, the confidence to then attack the right things and ultimately that drives the outcome, which is results. Uh, and so if you're doing it right, you get like the three legs of the stool, um, that, you know, every CRO, VP of sales, CEO is going to want to have. Um, but they have to experience the benefit first.

And, um, if they've had a bad experience with it, it's it's hard to it's hard to justify the cost. So, it's funny you said that they were hiring sales ops, um, which I think is an old school term and I don't want to confuse it with with RevOps. When I hear sales ops, I'm thinking, oh, a salesforce administrator or a HubSpot administrator. RevOps, I think, over the past several years has become, um, a pretty big buzzword.

Um, where do you think people get RevOps wrong? Like what what what what is RevOps in your mind and what do people think it is that it is not? Yeah, it's a big one. I think too, I'll start with where we where you began the conversation or your comment, which is it is an evolution and it's really looking at how, um, sales ops is what people and I dated myself a little bit but sales ops was really kind of the key to your point of like a salesforce admin.

Um, and then we saw this evolution where it was, hey, we we need to not work in silos, but we need to think about go to market holistically, meaning, hey, from a lead all the way to a customer. And that entire customer journey, how do we ensure that we have a point of view and ultimately visibility and a system that really helps us monitor the actions, behaviors that are going on in that entire customer journey. And that's really where the RevOps piece came into play is from marketing to sales to CS, how do we have a coordinated and alignment from a process definition perspective, uh the user journey, but also, um, the coordination amongst the teams. And so, uh, that's kind of the impetus or at least the the origin of of RevOps.

Um, and so it's that's kind of so we'll start there. Now, like what it is and what it isn't, um, you know, I think there's a lot of buzzwords to your point earlier of of what RevOps is and isn't. I mean, I think for us it's like how do we weaponize data in a way to equip and empower the teams to take the right action at the right time. Uh, that's if if we do that, then we have been successful.

Um, and so that when we talk about the clarity, confidence and outcomes, that's ultimately what we're doing is, hey, let's create a a a framework, a a methodology and a process that everyone is doing. So therefore, we can actually report on those behaviors then we can drive the right, uh, actions from the the go to market teams. So for us, that's what we focus on is how do we create process adoption? How do we then create reporting and then how do we then drive behavior?

Um, that is success for us. Uh, RevOps I think where it goes poorly, um, well, there's a lot of ways it goes poorly, but um, we we really try to fit in this Goldilocks position of strategy and execution. Um, and so you see a lot of consultants that will talk about like buzzwords that we mentioned earlier, um, but they don't know how to necessarily, uh, operationalize that inside of a CRM. And then you have like people that say they they do RevOps, but they're more tactical.

And they don't have the go to market strategy and approach to inform what they should be doing. And so when you're on either side of those, generally what happens is there there's just a gap and it creates a lot of problems because either you're creating technical debt on the tactical side because you don't have the context or on the strategy side, you you're providing a hundred-page slide deck that then just sits on the shelf and no one actually does anything with. And so it just becomes a wasted spend. So either is a bad experience for the CRO, the VP of sales or the CEO.

But we're trying to say, hey, how do we marry those two concepts? Here's something I keep seeing with sales teams I work with. Generic sequences don't work anymore. We've all gotten so good at turning out the noise that even your own buyers are ignoring you.

The problem isn't your reps. It's that your sequences are static and your signals are somewhere else entirely. That's why our clients use Nooks. And the thing that stuck with me is that their sequences actually stay fresh because the signals update them automatically.

Right buyer, right moment with no manual babysitting. If your outbound feels like it's shouting into a void, go check them out at nooks.ai/ bridgethegap. I I want to piggyback for a second.

So another fancy buzzword right now is GTM engineer. Um, and and I mean, hell, we're we're hiring for one for one of our clients. Um, in fact, your website when you pull it up actually says RevOps plus GTM engineering. What's the difference?

Yeah, so our our mission statement is engineering revenue outcomes for the go to market leader on HubSpot. So, uh, engineer for us, yeah, it is a buzzword and and Clay to their credit has, uh, done a good job of creating a category. And like when you're a category creator, you usually win. Uh, and so we do need to be mindful of where the market is headed from that perspective.

I I would say the difference between like a RevOps, like talk about I mean, it's the evolution you can kind of go down that route, but RevOps to us is more of a, um, it's a doer, uh, in the sense that, hey, system design, source of truth, creating the reports, helping think through, hey, where are the gaps or the leakage in the funnel from a, could it be a volume perspective, could it be a conversion perspective, but it's serving that role of, hey, I'm going to give you the actual intelligence by which to make decisions on. For us, the engineer gets more into, how do I orchestrate, meaning how do I execute, uh, demand in that in that example. And so for us, that's the delineation. They're there are other ways people could look at it, but for our own internal purposes, that's how we think about it is RevOps is serving that CRO to give them him or her that visibility insights, the engineer then is taking that action based off of the uh insights that have been provided to drive demand.

I like it. I love that. Uh and what is interesting is as we as we evolve the revenue operations like world, I can tell you like when when we hire a RevOps person, the C the CRO's eyes light up and they like really understand it and makes us look good because we're like, you guys are going to have this and and sometimes it's it's a bit of a struggle along with it. But um, as we go through this, what's one question a CEO can ask if they know that RevOps is broken?

Uh, do you know why you hit your number? Like that could be a good example of, you know, it's like the it's not a question of effort, um, often times people are just hoping they get to the number. Um, and so did you hit your number? Yes or no?

Not a strategy. What's that? Hope is not a strate not a strategy. Yeah, I mean like they you know, they, you know, most people can say, did I hit my number?

Yes or no. But then if you take a layer below, it's like why or why not? Um, and uh, that's where they start to have a lot of gaps. And so one of the things that to your point about what a CEO love and and that I've experienced it within our own organization is we have a scorecard that we look at weekly that shows you exactly how we're trending to the target for all these different like leading indicators.

So for us, it could be, uh, how many deals are we creating on a weekly basis. And and what are the source of those deals? Because that can help inform, hey, do we have a marketing problem or a sales problem on where the deals are being sourced from? Then we look at our conversion rate from what we call an SQL to closed one or MQL to to SQL.

And so that would be another one. Average deal size, how many deals are we closing? You start to have a very clear, uh, spotlight on where the problem issues are or the opportunities are so that you can attack it in real time. Uh, and so too often we just see with CEOs, if it's working or not, it's like, can you answer that question and can you answer it in real time?

Um, because knowing your number, I'll go I'll go back to you. Yeah, it's like knowing what happened last quarter is not it's an it's informative, but it doesn't impact you today and ultimately you're trying to make the right decisions in the moment and that's what we're trying to equip the the go to market leader with. What are good, what are so I'm going to pe back a little bit because I we've been doing a lot of work with CS groups. What are good forward-looking indicators on in a CS world?

Like what are like in sales it's like pipe like you have 4x pipeline, for example, is like a leading indicator. What are leading indicators in CS? Well, there there's different He wants you to talk about GRR just so we're clear. No, no, no.

Nope, that's not what I'm talking about. Well, what is GRR and RR on the retention side? Yeah, I mean that's the horse star metric, but then it gets into, what's your, what's your business model? Like, are you a non-recurring business?

Are you recurring business? Are you a PLG? Um, because that will then inform, hey, what are those actions that I need to be that I want my customer or user taking to determine success? Um, and so that's where I would start because then it kind of informs, okay, hey, how do I want to manage that behavior?

Um, and so if you're if you're in like a non-recurring revenue, let's call it like a, you know, supply chain, distribution, like and you have high SKU count and people are constantly ordering, then I think you're going to be looking at, you know, time from last purchase. Um, hey, what was the the average deal size? Are they buying the same things? Have we had a, um, a quality issue with the parts that we've been providing?

I'm just kind of making stuff up as I go. But like that would be in the non-recurring side. And the recurring side, it could be things around, hey, what's the usage look like on a weekly basis? Um, are we seeing, uh, support tickets that are being created for that customer?

When was the last time we had a check-in with the the persona that we're targeting? Um, those could all be examples in the recurring. And then on the PLG, I mean that is a high usage base. So you want to see, hey, what actions are they taking now that they're in the system?

Because PLG is usually, there's a freemium product that you're then trying to upgrade into a paid, um, product. So, hey, what are they, what are they using in the system? And then how do we take those actions to drive targeted, um, messaging so they know what else they could be using or how they could be extracting value from the set application. So, again, business type will always in my mind will always inform, where are those key metrics?

And then those metrics will inform the the activity that your CSM should be taking. Love that. Thank you. But, yes, the metrics around GRR, NRR, uh, and that that is kind of like the not kind of.

It is the the lever for exponential growth. And, uh, no matter what business you're in, um, often times the left side of the customer journey is what's prioritized, meaning sales and marketing, but the the CS function, meaning the customer, the flywheel you'll talk about, like that's that's really where you're going to start seeing massive growth. And and often times it gets ignored. Just like RevOps.

The CS function gets ignored. So, all of that makes sense. I I'm I'm going to throw a controversial loaded question out there. Where does RevOps report to?

Does RevOps report to the CRO, the VP of sales, the VP of marketing, the VP of success? Like where does this role report and who ultimately owns this function? Well, we we see it quite a I mean, we're fortunate in that we see a lot of engagements. I would say the the vast majority of the time, it's it falls, I call it the office of the CRO.

And so whoever like ultimately whoever owns the revenue number is generally where we see that falling. Uh, it could be a CEO candidly, just depending on the size of the organization. But what we have seen, I would say it's not a emerging trend, but I do see it more off like, it's not an outlier. So let's call it 20% of the time right now is the office of the CFO.

Um, because, um, the the CFO has more power than ever before as we think about, hey, growth at all costs is is dead. We need to be thinking about not just revenue but profitability. How do we balance those things? How do we look at our go to market efficiency?

Uh, that CFO voice has risen, uh, and RevOps is giving that data and intelligence and reporting that a CFO actually really really values. Um, and so we're seeing that, uh, grow. I'm not I'm not making a prediction that it will be the majority of it, but I do think that that persona, uh, finance has to be part of the equation. And if you are a CRO and you can't read a balance sheet or you can't read a P&L, uh, you're going to be in a world of trouble.

I will make that prediction that you will I mean, there there's a lot of those. Yeah. You will be out of a job. Uh, and so because you have to know the balance between revenue and profit because you have to have sustainable growth.

And so being able to have those that conversation, that dialogue, uh, with a CFO is really, really important. So, what's the cost of waiting too long? Like we all we all have costs and waiting and we talked a little bit about earlier about like sometimes a CRO is like the next hire is not a revenue ops, it's like another sales person. So, what's that cost of waiting of waiting too long to hire this RevOps person?

Um, you know, it's kind of like that whole like make them sick, make them well type of uh, metaphor, I don't know if that's the right way to phrase it, but it's hard to convince somebody they need something until they actually have the pain. Uh, so, I mean, I I wouldn't oversell in some of this like, I mean, for example, you mentioned $30, $40 million. We have a $40 million customer that was content working in email and spreadsheets and they didn't perceive it as a problem. So, like It loathes my mind.

Yeah. And so like there are there're hu well there's actually there's thousands of companies that fit that profile. So, Yeah. You know, it's not like everyone is in a dire need.

Like I think that would be disingenuous to say that. I would to me, it's usually like the pain becomes, hey, like I'm not hitting my numbers and I need to know why. That could be an example of a pain point. Another pain point could be, hey, I need to transform the way I go to market, um, because I'm launching a new product, I'm going in a new region and I need to have some data to help me understand what the heck I'm supposed to do.

And I'm I'm increasing the size of my sales team and I need to and it's fully distributed. I need to know what the heck they're doing on a daily basis and I don't know. Um, those things are like example triggers of, hey, we probably need to be investing in some way that is managing the system on our behalf because usually the the the challenge that we see with the persona that we serve is they either don't have the time or they don't have the expertise. It's it's usually one of those two things.

Um, and so they're looking for a plug and play operator that can help them think through those problems, um, because they they just can't they don't have the bandwidth or they don't have the knowledge by which to actually execute it. So, you know, the cost, it's hard to quantify candidly and that's probably not a great answer for this podcast, but, um, I I just think it's it it's really dependent on like what is triggering the need. And then you can start quantifying, well, hey, the cost of an action is this, um, and because often times if you're, hey, you're going to a new market or a new product, you're about to spend hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars into said initiative. And that then it's very easy to say, well, okay, well, if you just kind of are hoping and guessing, uh, it's it's going to be a problem.

But you can also say from like, you know, most clients that we go into, they're running their business from a top-down model, right? So they're saying, hey, we're going to, we we we did $20 million this year, we need to do $26 million next year, some number they come up with that either a board puts in, an investor puts in, or they just want from like an overall perspective. Or they pull a random GRR number out like, oh, we need to get above 90% because that's what the market's saying right now. Instead of like really looking at the data and then coming up from the bottom like, how many leads do you really need to generate an opportunity to to generate a closed one deal?

Like, what are the percentages already on that pipeline? And I can tell you in a lot of places the data is so dirty, like to do that analysis is like a lot of work. It's not something you just like hire somebody and be like, okay, go tell me what my, uh, NRR and GRR and ARR is from the last, you know, five years. Yeah, I mean, that's a great point.

And, uh, our our best lead source and part our VCs and PEs for exactly what you described is like, hey, they, they're doing the waterfall for growth targets and like on spreadsheets and they're like, hey, you guys don't have any of this. Uh, not only do not have it, but it's not inside your CRM and like this is a problem. And then I mean, there's a reason why, well one of the I mean, if you look at the average tenure of a CRO, it's less than 18 months. It's it's the shortest tenure of anybody in the C-suite.

Um, and I I mean, we were kind of joking about like one of the things is CRO you need to be financially literate, meaning you need to know how to speak to the CFO. And that's and that's not like I'm not being mean to. I mean, I didn't know how to read a a balance sheet or P&L until I was in the CEO role. I wish I had known when I was a CRO.

Um, so that I mean, that's one but two like you have to know the data. Um, and if you don't have the RevOps person, you can't even engage in that waterfall math to your point. And so, um, and it's and the scrutiny is higher than ever before for the reasons we already talked about. And so, um, that's that's a it's a it's a really good point on the on the data side.

Awesome. So much bad data out there. So much because people bring in RevOps too late is part of it. Um, and they're not unifying their systems and not having, um, one cohesive system of record.

But I digress and I could go on about that for the next hour and a half. With that, we are at time to shift into some rapid fire. Uh, so the rules here that we try to abide by are 10 words or less. Um, for every word over, Dale owes me $10.

Um, so feel free to go as over as you want. Uh, Brendan, what's the one go-to-market metric that founders obsess over too much? Uh, It's a good question. A singular metric?

I you said 10 words or less. So I need to stop talking. You're you're fine. Mmm.

Deals created. Okay. What's uh what's a harder role, the CRO or the revenue operations leader? Ooh.

CRO. I mean, it's like the the quarterback in football. I mean, you get all the glory or you get all the blame. It's it's it's a big burden to carry.

What would you, um, What would you never implement again that you've implemented? ActiveCampaign. Not that it's I mean, I I can't do more. You said 10 words, so I'm using one word.

Go ahead. Go ahead. Please. Uh, well we were when we were first starting the business, we uh we we knew we didn't want to do salesforce not because salesforce is a bad tool, but it it's uh it's a really crowded market.

We knew we wanted to differentiate. We needed to have a platform that could do all of the customer journey. And uh ActiveCampaign, at least at the time, was an okay marketing product, but it was a terrible sales product. Um, and so it was a very painful experience.

Awesome. Um, what's one tool that companies rely on too heavily? Mmm, that's a good one. Well, is it like, what is is your question like what is becoming obsolete or like where you're What just something like something like, you know, they're they're making decisions based on data coming out of this system or or I mean, it could be AI now, right?

Like people are generating AI but not really checking the data and then like all of a sudden it's hallucinating. I'm just Yeah, I mean, I I think the big one right now is, um, I mean we're seeing a lot with is insert whatever email provider you're using. It could be sales off, could be outreach, could be gong, could be, you know, because, you know, people can do more now than they ever could, but the problem is the volume doesn't translate to results. And so they are just they have all this information that they can start using, but uh in fact, it's actually having the opposite effect of it's impacting brand, it's impacting deliverability and it's retracting people as opposed to attracting them to said product or service.

What's uh, what's one system you thought would have failed but actually worked? Um, I'll I'll answer it a little bit differently, like an application that I was skeptical of that I love, um, is is like conversational intelligence. Like we use a Boma a lot, um, but like, you know, insert Ask Elephant, Gong, whatever it may be. The the power of a tool like that is actually quite exceptional, um, if you set it up properly, Um, because you can things like keywords, you can monitor for Yeah.

It could be for an upgrade for your business, could be for a cross sell for your business, it could be a customer experience that you want to capture. Um, it could be a sales training. I would say that like of things that have been hyped up, I I would say that one has actually lived up to to the hype. Last one, uh, dream vacation destination.

Ooh. Uh, my family we we so I have three little kids. We do we do uh like experience like we like experiences, I guess it's a short comment and then so we'll do national parks, uh, the week of Memorial Day. So like this this one we're this year we're going to Banff in Canada.

Uh and we did Zion last year and Grand Canyon. So just design. I mean, we love to get out and be active and it's a lot of fun. So that that that's our dream vacation.

We just did Zion as a as a company. Oh, nice. You Zion. Yeah, it was fun.

A lot of fun. We did Zion and I'm doing uh I'm doing Whistler in a couple weeks with my kiddo. Um Oh, that's great. So, we are all about experiences as well.

Brendan, where can people uh learn more about y'all? More about your services? Pitch it. Look at you using y'all.

I I like being with some southern folks. Uh, so we are uh I mean really two places are are where you can find us. I mean, LinkedIn we're pretty we're pretty loud. Um, and so you can find uh Rev Partners there or for me, I I don't I don't even know my handle, but Brendan Tallison is my name.

So find me there. Um, and then um, you know, if you if you're on HubSpot or you're considering Clay and you're looking for some support, uh, we'd be happy to to give you some guidance or thoughts on the best way to set up your system to to scale. So, um, I I'd say LinkedIn is the best place for me. Cool, man.

We appreciate it. Thanks for joining the show. Thank you. Thanks y'all.