The Outbound Sales Playbook: How UserGems Turns Signals into Revenue with Trinity Nguyen

Trinity Nguyen, CMO and Head of Account Development at UserGems, shares how the company pioneered signal-based selling before it became an industry buzzword. Initially, building awareness was a massive challenge, forcing the team to transition from brute-force manual outreach to scalable, automated signal tracking. By maniacally focusing on their Ideal Customer Profile (ICP) and updating it every six months, UserGems built a strong foundation to weather market shifts and competitive threats. Beyond go-to-market strategy, Trinity emphasizes the power of eating your own dog food. The UserGems team actively uses their own product to power their entire outbound motion, testing new features and AI agents internally months before releasing them to customers. This internal feedback loop, combined with structured CS handoffs and joint engagement plans, ensures customers achieve immediate time-to-value and prevents early churn. Finally, Trinity reflects on the inevitability of systems breaking as a startup scales. She notes that every time a business triples in size, its foundational processes will break, highlighting that friction is a sign of necessary evolution. To sustain growth, companies must constantly reassess their product positioning, avoiding recency bias while guiding users from a passive tool mentality to daily, proactive engagement.

Discussed in this episode

• Trinity explains how UserGems overcame early awareness challenges by transitioning from brute-force manual outbound to automated, signal-based selling.
• The team actively tags every account as ICP or non-ICP in their CRM to monitor pipeline health and target mix.
• UserGems officially reviews and updates their Ideal Customer Profile every six months to adapt to shifting market dynamics.
• Customer Success wears dual hats, driving initial implementation value before seamlessly transitioning to expansion and renewal discussions.
• A shared engagement plan ensures customers achieve their first opportunity with the product within a specific, rapid timeframe.
• Trinity highlights the reality of startup growth, noting that systems inevitably break every time the business triples in size.
• The company is actively shifting its product DNA from a set-it-and-forget-it tool to a daily-use AI sales platform.
• By using their own platform for all internal outbound, the UserGems team tests and refines new features months before public release.

Episode highlights

1. 0:00 — Welcome and rebrand to Bridge the Gap podcast
2. 2:15 — UserGems' early days and building brand awareness
3. 4:30 — The genesis of job change tracking and signals
4. 7:45 — Why you must update your ICP every six months
5. 10:20 — Tagging every CRM contact by ICP vs non-ICP
6. 13:10 — How the CS handoff drives immediate time-to-value
7. 16:45 — Why everything breaks when you triple your business
8. 19:30 — Shifting from background tool to daily use
9. 23:00 — Using UserGems internally to build UserGems
10. 25:15 — Gathering transparent customer feedback milestones
11. 27:30 — Rapid fire questions with Trinity Nguyen

Key takeaways

• Review and refine your Ideal Customer Profile every six months.
• Tag every CRM opportunity as ICP or non-ICP to monitor pipeline.
• Systems break when you triple your business; embrace the friction.
• Use your own product internally to test features before release.
• Map out joint engagement plans to ensure rapid time-to-value.

Transcript

Let's face it, y'all. Hiring sales talent is a real pain in the ass. Getting A players is key to bridging your go-to market gap, but it's harder than ever. If you're not actively engaging passive talent, you don't stand a damn chance.

That's why at Revenue Reimagined, we trust our partners at Pursuit to help our clients find the best talent fast. If you're looking to strengthen your sales team, go check them out at pursuitsalessolutions.com. This is normally where I would say, welcome back to another episode of the Revenue Reimagined podcast, but as you all know who've been following us, we are in the midst of a rebrand, and this is the first episode of the Bridge the Gap podcast.

And we are stoked to have an amazing guest with us today. We have Trinity Newan, who is the CMO and head of account development at User Gems, formally led product marketing at Sese. And I am stoked to talk to you for a couple of reasons. Number one, you have so much knowledge in the space.

And number two, we are going through a user gems implementation with a client right now and having an amazing time. So I'm stoked to hear a little bit about your journey of how you all have bridged the go-to market gap. Welcome to the show. Thank you Adam and Dale for having me on.

I'm excited. I I love the name. I just we just talked about this offer offline. I really like this rebrand, guys.

Nothing wrong with the name before, but this new one is very catchy. Thank you. I'll take the credit. Dale doesn't get any credit for this one.

As I said, we we give him one good idea a quarter, so he's now using it on. And and we just came back from our quarterly offsite in Utah, so I think he he's a little bit uh invigorated from uh from that offsite. So, um, Trinity, thanks for joining the show. Um, we've been following user jumps for a while.

We've talked to Christian in the past. Um, one thing that I'm curious about as you guys think about when you guys were bridging the go-to market gap, and you were building out your marketing, uh, world. What was what was some of the initial challenges you guys has had from getting the awareness of user gems. Like, think back five, five, six years ago.

You guys were brand new. What was the awareness build like for you guys? Uh, non-existent back in the day. So I think we we built the product because we kind of observed some of the best reps how they built their own pipeline.

We're like, well, not being sellers ourselves, but we're very strong into like automation and technology like most co-founders are technical co-founders. So we could we could help people do this. So so we know that there is a natural product market fit in a sense that people are doing it, but nobody talked about it. So like the awareness was zero.

So the challenge back in the day was like, how do we get people to realize that A, this is a gold mind that people are sitting on that can help, you know, bridging the gap to hit your target number. Um, but B is that there is a solution that is not just like a brute force manual. Um, so that was I took a little while. Uh, we tried all kinds of things like early days was just so founder led sales.

We didn't have sellers. I was the first business hire just doing the marketing and like the SDR role. So how do we get people to pay attention? Yeah.

Yeah. Can can you believe it this one doing sales development? Uh. Were you doing a lot of cold calling?

Were you calling? What were you doing in the cold calling, email, uh, like everything. Video too. Like the whole video, sending video to everyone, like personalized that was no tech, it was just like, you know, elbow grease.

Yeah. Uh, did it help me too. I like to call pick and shovel. Yep.

All of all of the above. Um, so I think it was like, how do we get people to understand that this is the low hanging fruit? Um, so on the marketing side I was like, okay, can we copy the hubspot playbook of like, if we write a lot of blog posts and SEO it, people are going to find it. But that would take a long time and I'm not a very patient person because everyone that works with me can attest.

Um, so I'm like, okay, how can we figure out how to do Inbound takes too long, I can't control it. But like out down motion, I feel like I can control like the input and output of it a little bit. So we start doing like picking out the number of accounts that we think have a really strong sales team, aka outbound motion, and therefore would understand the value prop of something like tracking a customers when they change their jobs. And then we also put that into the outbound message to give them an example of their customer that changed job.

And then that was it. So it it's it's funny to me because having some insight and going through a user gems implementation right now and really focusing on signals. When you look at all these folks out there who are like cold outbound at scale, right? So we're going to go prospect and we're going to go put them all in a smart lead and we're going to have 10,000 domains and we're going to run them through clay and we're going to focus on job change signals.

Like they're all talking about this like this is some new epiphany they've had that like job signals are this great way to reach out to people with cold outbound, but y'all came up with this years ago, right? Like this this has been something that has been user gem's core for years and not only just cold outbound, but like deeply embedded into your CRM. Why do you think that it's taken so long for these folks to suddenly have this epiphany that like, holy crap, when someone changes a job like probably a good time to reach out to them. I think because it's hard to um so reps do this.

Like all of us who've done selling before, we know, we do it in some capacity, right? Like there's a concept of Rolladex. It's not new. Like if you sell to like CIO and Enterprise, there's a concept of CIO on the move.

com. It's an actual website. Um so so sellers know this, but but this motion is not new, but to teify it in a program using technology to scale it as a program, you're kind of like bleeding over to kind of like marketing S. And for marketers, this concept is odd because it seem like such a small volume compared to when marketers talk about audience, we talk about millions.

Like hundreds of thousand, right? So it doesn't quite click there. So I think there's a little bit of that. And the second part is like people would say, well, if they love me, wouldn't they come back anyway?

So why do I have to But they're like, but when they don't how how would you know when they don't come back though, that's the question I asked them. Um so I think that took a little bit for people to be like, oh, wait, this this signal really worth scaling and it's not something that competitors, even if they run the same motion, they can really steal, right? If someone use your product, that mean they didn't use the other options. So therefore this is yours and scale with you.

Yeah. Very interesting. And so when you were driving that awareness, like and I know you guys have had competitors come in and out and like some of them tried to do it, um but they didn't make it, or they kind of like it was just fledgling through the process. What, um, what were the things that made you successful even through COVID.

So COVID was a probably a tough time for you guys. What kept you guys going that we we talked about stabilization, foundation building, then to get to repeatability. What was the foundational elements that you guys were building inside the organization, so that when hard times hit, or you got competitors, that you were like, no, we have a strong foundation, we're going to be able to execute. What were some of the things, two or three things that you guys built on the foundational level?

I think the first thing we did very early on, even when we had like probably two or three customers, is like the maniacal focus on like who the ICP is. It sounds so boring and mundane, but it's so boring. Yeah, so boring. Yeah.

Like foundation 101, like sales 101. People don't realize like that's so important and they don't do it right at all. Yeah. It's it's like college.

How do you how do you go to a 201 or 301 class without doing the basics first? You can't. And if people don't realize that, you have no idea who the heck you're selling to. I I love like it's not as boring like it's not sexy, but it's it's not boring.

It's important. Yeah. I I love it because my back I'm biased to my background in product marketing, so it just kind of cam naturally. But it just makes sense, right?

Like kind of like you said, you got a 101 before you get to the 201. Um, so back in the day like anyone who works with user gem know that in our dashboard, the early days, we we track the ICP come in and out. We monitor it, we discuss it every six months or so, we change ICP if the mix changes. So we're very nerdy in that sense.

I think that's the foundational part that can help us kind of like focus on like the ones that we want to reach out to and not the others. Yeah. Um, I love that. Yeah.

Quick question, quick quick follow-up on that, because six, five years ago, you could do it once and probably get away with it for three years. Are you guys reviewing your IC? How how often are you guys reviewing your ICP, buying persona, value prop, your stuff. All the time.

Oh my god, all the time. Um, I would say like we probably make official changes to kind of align team as the business like evolve, as the market evolve, every six months or so. Like I feel like every six months, there'll be like some kind of like pipeline council discussions but like, this is not working. These are all the edge cases.

And when I feel that friction across the revenue team, and I know we need to revisit. Everyone should hear that. Every six months. We just went to a conference and we just went to a conference and we had everybody raise their hand.

It was like two years and it's like you don't realize how fast go to market's changing every three to six months. And so I love that you guys at least look at it every six months. Yeah. I actually look at it every every other day.

Because in the dashboard in the dashboard, remember I told you guys we have the dashboards and it's already every account is marked as ICP versus non-ICP. So from the demo request through the entire pipeline, so my dashboard is how the pipeline's doing. There's always a stack, it's always split between ICP, non-ICP. So it's very easy for me every two days to see like there's our mix change.

And then the anecdote from the teams from the CS all the way to the SDR. That's anecdotes that kind of complete. Is that the CRM dashboard that you're talking about? Yeah, yeah.

Salesforce dashboard. We just mark everything. So I think that's the second foundational thing that we did again being super nerds. Um, we we tag everything.

We we love being nerdy. So we track and tag everything. Every account is tagged with like ICP, non-ICP. Every contact with the title coming in where we kind of enrich ourselves, but then the RevOps team also have a formula that automatically group them into like which persona they're in.

So I can already see the mix of our persona. Does it change over time? Is it leaning more sales or marketing or ops over time? And is that in is that coming from marketing and also from opportunities or is it just when you're creating opportunities, you're tagging them?

Uh, every so we have like our main like we don't really have all the forms of submission so much. It's mostly like demo requests. So all the contacts. Got it.

All the contacts get mapped. Yeah. Cool. So we're updating our ICP at least every six months.

Everyone listening should take note because if you're not doing that, I don't care what business you're in, whether you are selling solar panels door to door, whether you're selling user gems, whether you're selling a extremely complex, you know, uh software to CIOs, you got to update that ICP. How much pushback if any, do you get from the sales team when you're updating that ICP and how do you roll out ICP updates so that it's not like, oh my goodness, you guys are changing everything on me. Um so, that happens all the time. Like changes inevitable especially in the startup.

And us sales people love change, don't we? Yeah. But I think I think it's a but our to our seller's credit, I think it's usually the marketing team that wants to like widen the pool so to test, especially with new products coming out where we don't know yet. We like, okay, do we expand it, not?

Um, but we also have like the A CSM handoff but kind of a cruel sales channel. Yeah. So our our sellers are actually not the ones that's like, don't they're the ones that want to like strengthen the ICP more so that the CSM accept the deal coming in. So imagine that.

Yeah, yeah, that's the friction point. Yeah, that's friction point, which is healthy. So I think like as we kind of like making sure that we have customers that renew and has a strong LTV, it pushes up to the AEs, who then pushes up to the SDR. And now the SDR is pushing up to demand to make sure that we don't have bad ones.

So, yeah. It's very interesting. You're just talking about handoff. So, let's go to the other end of the go-to market motion.

So, now you're in the CS world. And how are you guys talk to us a little bit about what the CS world looks like at user gems. Is it a renewal-based opportunity? Is it a revenue generation for user gems?

What what kind of balance do you guys uh have with the with the CS side of the house? Yeah. I think our CS team the way we structured is really strong. Having said that, I'm not saying that we figured out in terms of like the the revenue side of it.

Um, because we So large companies would have account management who's like responsible for driving the expansion piece. Um, our CAS wears both hats. Um, so they have so like once the handoff happened from AEs to CS, we have the CS E, so CS engineering, so the implementation uh side, but because they're responsible for driving the the ARR component, they want to set they have clear milestones to see the first opportunity. The customer needs to generate the first opportunity with user gems in like X days.

And then that's hand off to a typical CSM. And then there's a certain like metrics that we track to see whether an account is ready for expansion or upsell conversation. And that's when the CS will flag and bring in AE. So the expansion goals is split between two teams.

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Interesting. So Dale, you would be very impressed going through a user gem implementation right now. And Trinity, we we onboard so much software for our clients, right? Like I probably we're we're always onboarding anywhere from three to five different softwares.

And most of them are 27 emails of you need to do this and do that and go back and forth here and you guys actually use a, I'll call it a joint engagement plan, um, not just for the sales side, but for the onboarding side as well. Um, and you're using a platform called Accord, but like working with Steven, every single step Dale that I need to do is very clearly mapped out to make sure that I'm doing it, that we're getting the value, that we can show the value, when we're following a process to ultimately drive, Trinity, as you were talking about, quick immediate time to value for the customer that we know I should see that first win or that first response within arguably a day of going live, if things are going correct. Um, I think the way you guys are doing it is really special. Thank you.

Thank you. I'll I'll make sure that Stephen gets, um, yeah. I think that the handoff is is really like really optimized, I'd say. And we we get that feedback quite a bit.

When you look back, um, at the journey of user gem, so we talked about stabilization, foundation, repeatability, scalability. There's times that we find that you think you are in repeatability and you actually need to go back to foundation. Or you might even need to go back to stabilization because something gets, you know, really messed up or there's this big change. What what's one standout moment where you guys thought you had it nailed and then you looked back and you're like, we got to start over here or we're going to fundamentally hurt the business.

So many times. So many times. Someone told me this years ago and I only internalize it through this journey with user gems, is every time you three-act your business, everything breaks. Um, if things don't break, that mean you're moving too safely and too safe, uh, too safely and too slow.

Um, so like, yeah. So, and I remember every time we did that, like this this sentence came back to my mind and I had to tell that to the team is like, it's okay, that it breaks and you feel frustration. It's actually a good thing. Because otherwise it just kind of like status quo forever, right?

Um, so tons every time. Like clockwork. Um, like for us, I would say the biggest one, um, that I would say that we're going through right now, actually, is recency bias. Uh, but I I I think that's one is right now is the the one that I'm actively trying to figure out.

So, we did a decent job back in the days to kind of build awareness, build the so-called category. What we couldn't do back in the day is we actually started out calling job change tracking as a signal in 2020. Nobody gave two cents about what the heck signal was. Kind of your trigger event, people didn't like the word trigger because it's too triggering.

So nothing ever happened. So we didn't it didn't work out until December of 2023. So a year-ish ago, plus in Q4. All of a sudden, everyone talked about signals.

And then last year, everyone's like, please stop talking about signals. Why is everything signals? Um, so we've we kind of like we built that job change thing and we expand to all kinds of different signals like funding, hiring, you name it. Everything that could indicate that someone might be in a buying window.

But then right now, all that is just the foundational pieces of the product, because we built the data and we own our own data instead of going outside and find data. So that we can have this AI agent for sales that is not making people want to roll their eyes and just like churn in like three months situation. So I'm going through that right now the piece in terms of like, who is our ICP? What is our positioning that makes us different than every other AI out there?

Um, where should we play and why us to be the winner? Kind of thing. So I'm going through that right now. So I feel like a lot of the things that worked in the past, we have to review and everything has to justify its place and how do we tell this story in a way that people are like, oh, makes sense that you're in this then this is like a user gems evolution and not the like, whoa, what do you do.

Yeah, and there's probably, um, one of the things we've been thinking a lot about when we've talked to some of our clients about is especially in the SAS world, how do you get somebody to potentially get into your product at least weekly, if not daily? Like how do you get somebody to like look at it, use it, find it valuable, especially sales people, right? Because we're like always all over the place. Um, and we've liked it.

So, um, the partners in the firm have all got Aura Rings. And so we all got rings to track activity, so that we can like, like we can compete with each other. But in that competition, we're always looking at our activity almost on a daily basis. So it's like that same opportunity that how someone like user gems can get people to look into the product on a daily basis, so that they're all like they they can't go a day, two days, three days without going into the product to look at what their achievement is.

Uh, that's the that's the goal. Um, that's another thing too that is, um, so the product will get to that point and I don't know when you guys going to add that. So I feel like everyone's going to be listening to me like and the stock will be exploding against. four weeks, four weeks.

Okay. So, um, so this is going to be something that we are trying to from the product side, trying to get to, there like what you said. The I would say like the the DNA of user gem is like five years ago, which works really well back then. But now kind of go back to what Adam was saying like, everything has to be redone.

So, our DNA back in the day is like, user gem is a set it and forget it tool. We just generate you just see money and opportunities created. You don't have to think about it. You set it up once and it just runs.

So the entire product DNA is optimized for that. So like reps never have to think about it. They just know, oh, it's a user gem lead. I'm going to make money out of that.

That's it. But as we kind of moving to product evolved to where we are today, you don't want to be too set it and forget it because people actually forget about you. Exactly. Yeah.

And and now it does a lot more things now in terms of just one signal, it says all the signals. So right now I'm running I would say like probably 12 different plays for outbound that using all kinds of signals. So, naturally, you need someone to log in and look at it and optimizing it even with AI. And you want the reps to see it as well, otherwise they don't know that it's a product.

So many times we have a lot of past users, like AEs and SDRs, that they thought user gems is an internal nickname for a program that marketing and ops built. User gems. Interesting. You didn't even have you didn't even have brand recognition.

I I know, right? So that's why we have to be so loud and active on the brand side. So people are like, hey, we're an actual company. Um, but yeah, so that's another thing that we're trying to redo or like evolve like what Adam was asking earlier.

When you guys are looking to make changes, you have the benefit of, I hope, actually using your own product in house. Um, and driving business off of that. And a lot of a lot of companies don't have that benefit, right? Like they sell something really cool, but it's not something that like everyone in the business can use.

How do you guys like solicit feedback from the team as far as like, you know, this would be forget and it's important what customers want. But like internally, like Trinity to help me as a rep sell better, can we look at this signal? Can we develop this play? Can we develop this messaging?

Do you guys do things like hackathons or employee engagement? Like how how do you build the platform from the inside out? It's actually built from the inside out. And sometimes I'm scared.

I'm like, wait, what if I'm the one that's wrong? What if I'm the weird one and no one else wants the things that the team want? Um, our entire outbound is powered by user gems. So I told the teams, I told the reps, I'm like, guys, I know like when you see the sausage made, sometimes you see things that you, you know, not perfect yet.

But we're spoiled. We're spoiled to the core. Our entire CRM is powered by user gems. Our our if we need something spun up, if we don't have it, the product team will hackathon like in two days and give us that.

So the product is actually built for the team. I just hope our team is typical and it's not just like we're the the weird ones. That's funny. That's funny.

Yeah. And and how do you so this is so this is very interesting to me because we're we're actually working with a client right now. How do you balance the feedback you get from clients and the internal feedback that you're getting. Like, you have a vision for the product, but you also have people using the product.

And as a CMO and working with the dev team, how do you guys balance that? Is it like a 70/30 rule? Do you guys have any rules like that? Like how does that work?

Um I wish I had like a sophisticated answer. I think so, we have a lot of like product feature request channels, product feedback channels, all that in the slack. And the entire product team and engineering team are on it. And we have a ticketing system so that they can prioritize.

I think that the PM does a good job of kind of prioritizing it with the the resources we have. Um, having said that, because I I really think the user gems internal team is the number one power users, so we actually tend to see things two, three months before the customer even see it because we use it first. So for example like the AI agent that we publicly launched a couple weeks ago, we've been using it since September. And we see the impact already.

So the team actually sees it. Um, so we I would say I would say probably like 60% of the in terms of product improvement, um, coming from internal, just because we had the the the the well you probably have a you probably have a score rating on it too. So if you guys identify something and then like customers are like up ticking it. Um, and so do you guys when you guys find something, do you guys put it in the channel to ask customers if this is something that they would want?

Yeah. So we're starting that soon to kind of bring customers in a little bit more so we can have this open dialogue. What we've seen so far, um, but that will change soon because I I'd love to, I love what you were saying, Dale like that community of bringing folks in, so people can exchange ideas. A lot of time what we've seen is like signals is pretty new.

It's not rocket science, but it's just like wrap your heads around how do you build programs around signals? Let alone AI. Like everyone's leaning into AI, but no one really knows, like, how does it what does it mean? Yes, there's a spray and pray and here's a target list and you can send whatever.

But there's a more sophisticated way. So what's the right way? So, what we've seen is that customers usually ask us like, what's working for you? How do you do it?

How do all the customers that have a head run do it? Can you share with us? Um, so we try to be the guinea pig and try as many and as many things as possible. Playbook, templatize it and pass it on and then get feedback from customers and then iterate it.

Awesome. I I wish more people would actually incorporate customer feedback. Like we all think that we know what our customers want using our products, right? Because we we we eat our own dog food.

We we use it every day. We this is what I would want. And some of the time, we're probably right. Um, but other times, like I don't think a lot of companies do a good job of like, ask your customers what they want.

Ask your customers what they love about your product. Ask your customers like, hey, money's no object, dev time's no object. If this product could do anything for you, within the scope of what we do. What would it be?

Um, and you get so much valuable feedback that you can then put into motion versus what most people do, which is the customer's going to churn and it's, oh, Trinity, now that you're leaving, can you tell me what we could have done differently? Had you asked me that six months ago, I I wouldn't have left. Um, so I I I love. Yeah.

100%. 100%. We do like, um, in quarterly win-lost turn interviews, um, just from the product marketing just to get feedback qualitatively. And the CSM also has this like automation where a certain milestone, again, we use our the data in CRM and kind of trigger different milestones.

Adam, you're probably going to see it soon. We asked like, how happy are you with implementation? Like 100 days in. And then and then it's a it's just a form so that hopefully people are more honest and we um also ask like like the first uh third of the customer's life cycle and then again and again and like renewal intention as well.

And when they submit it, it goes into a shared slack channel that everyone sees from the product to the red. Everyone sees it. So like the good, bad and ugly, we all see it and we're like, all right, red alert, what can we do to turn things around? So I think that's another way of bringing feedback in as well.

100%. If you were to take this product away from me today, how upset would I be? How much of an impact would it have on my business? Trinity, this has been amazing.

Before we wrap up, I'd love to do some rapid fire with you. Uh, if if you're game. Sure. All right.

Here's the rules, 10 words or less. Um, early bird or night owl? Wait, say it again. What did you say?

Early bird or night owl? Night owl, but aspiring to be early bird. And aspiring early bird. Um, based on where user gems is today, would you guys say you're in stabilization, foundation, repeatability, or scalability within the business?

Um, I would say repeatability because of all the changes we're doing right now. So I want to build a new system to scale. Way more than 10 words, but I love that one. That's the first time we've asked that one.

I love that one. Uh, what's your favorite guilty pleasure snack? Ooh, right now is um, protein chips. This questions crazy.

I don't like this protein. Yes. Yes. They're actually really good.

Awesome. If you weren't in tech, what trade or other business would you be in? Um, advertising. I think it's fun.

What's um, one word and one word only to describe your startup journey so far. Crazy. Love it. Last one as we wrap up.

Dream vacation destination. Bora Bora. Bora Bora. Yes.

Beautiful. Trinity, thank you so much for joining the show. Everyone, if you want to go see more and learn about User Gems, it does have our endorsement. We use it here at R R.

It is usergems.com, is that correct? Correct. we.

com. Perfect. Go check it out. Utilize signals.

It is in my opinion, likely the only way that you should outbound if you want to get positive responses. Trinity, thanks so much for joining us. Thank you guys. It's awesome.