The Key to Long-Term Sales Success ft. Keith Weightman | Revenue Reimagined Ep. 044

Keith Weightman, RVP of Sales at Bullhorn, joins the show to unpack the rare achievement of staying with one tech company for over eleven years. He attributes this longevity to working for great leaders, having a superior product, and a culture centered on ownership, urgency, and human connection. Keith explains how constant role-hopping for slight pay increases often backfires and advocates for building deep internal relationships to navigate complex enterprise deals. A standout segment of the episode covers Keith's passion for visualization in sales. He shares how shifting from standard pitch decks to collaborative whiteboarding transformed his discovery calls. By mastering a simple 'visual vocabulary' of just five shapes, sellers can map out buyer challenges in real-time, boosting memory retention and strongly differentiating themselves from competitors who rely on traditional slides. Keith also details lessons learned from early M&A failures, emphasizing the need for robust operational strategies to integrate teams and systems smoothly. Finally, he underscores the importance of prioritizing messy action over perfection, advising sales reps to ship and iterate rapidly rather than agonizing over font choices or slide formatting.

Discussed in this episode

• Why a strong company culture and dedicated leadership convinced Keith to stay at Bullhorn for over 11 years.
• The danger of 'shiny object syndrome' and why jumping ship for a higher OTE often backfires.
• How early M&A integration failures taught Bullhorn to create specialized operational teams for seamless customer transitions.
• The importance of building internal cross-functional alliances to successfully navigate complex, large-scale enterprise deals.
• Bullhorn's strategy of revisiting their core mission and spotlighting a specific value during every quarterly all-hands meeting.
• How replacing standard pitch decks with live whiteboarding sessions creates highly collaborative discovery meetings.
• The 'visual vocabulary' concept, proving that mastering just five basic shapes allows sellers to map out complex SaaS concepts.
• Why sales professionals must prioritize messy action and rapid execution over perfecting slide deck formatting.

Episode highlights

1. 1:30 — Navigating tech sales longevity
2. 4:15 — Overcoming shiny object syndrome
3. 7:20 — Failing and learning in M&A
4. 10:05 — Aligning internal cross-functional teams
5. 13:50 — Defining a true sales culture
6. 17:15 — Origin of visual selling strategy
7. 20:40 — Mastering the five-shape visual vocabulary
8. 24:00 — Processing images faster than text
9. 26:30 — Embracing messy action over perfection

Key takeaways

• People work for great leaders, not just the overarching company.
• Internal relationships are just as critical as external relationships in enterprise sales.
• Ditch the standard pitch deck for live, collaborative whiteboard discovery.
• Five basic shapes are all you need for a visual sales vocabulary.
• Prioritize speedy, messy execution over endlessly perfecting your slide formatting.

Transcript

What's our mission? What are our core values? That should guide everything that we do and if you don't align, that's okay, but you're probably not in the right place. Welcome back to another episode of The Revenue Reimagined Podcast.

I am stoked. We have with us today someone I have been trying to get on this show for what feels like forever. I am so glad that he's finally here. Keith Waitman, who is the RVP of Sales at Bullhorn, who, if you're not getting his newsletter, you need to.

I don't open a ton of newsletters, but every week, every weekend, excuse me, he delivers simple tips that help deliver big-time impact combining sales, writing, and most importantly, the power of visualization, which we'll talk about in a little bit. Dale, take some notes here. Keith, thanks for joining the show, man. I'm super excited to be here.

I'm glad we could finally, finally make it work out. So, I mean, other than the fact that Dale was 15 minutes late, we'll give him a pass. We'll give him a pass. We will we will we will not make the episode 15 minutes though.

We'll make it work. Awesome. Keith, thanks for joining and we've we've known each other for a bit of time ever since like back in the smart action days, so it's been a bit of time, uh, since we've been chatting, but, um, let's let's talk about this question. You've been in sales for a long time, but some that've reimagined your role.

Let's say you have to leave sales and go to some other revenue department. What what department would that be and why? Ooh. That's a good question.

I don't think, I mean, can I say no, I don't want to go to another You got to pick one other one other place. Uh, maybe, I don't know, maybe sales ops. Sales operations. You're gonna pick marketing.

Like with all your visualization and all your like pieces, I was like, he's definitely gonna say marketing. But operations, he's in operations as well. Yeah, I mean, I like the process side of things. I like to, you know, look at the bigger picture.

But, you know, marketing's another one. I could, you know, you threw me with that question. I wasn't prepared for that one this early in the morning. Let let's let's talk marketing, sales, sales ops, um, as it all comes together.

I think, Keith, one of the things that fascinates me and you and I were talking about this, um, a little before, you've been at Bullhorn almost 12 years, right? 11 and a half years. Um, that is unheard of in today's day and age for any revenue leader who typically has an average tenure of 18 months, um, to be someplace for that long. And part of me thinks that is because of in part cross-collaborative working with marketing, working with ops, working, you know, with everyone and having this relationship that makes you wanna stay.

But talk to the audience, specifically founders who have this general belief, oh, no one's gonna be here more than a year. It's impossible. Like you're living proof, man. 11 and a half years.

What does it take and why did you stay 11 and a half years? Yeah. It's a loaded question, but I I I'm a big believer that that that people work for people, they don't work for companies. And I happened to start at Bullhorn in 2013.

I started the same day that my leader started. So we were in like the same sales boot camp. And I've been with him since then. And you know, I I look at, okay, well I've been here for 11 years.

And then I look at my CRO, he's been at Bullhorn for 18 years. Wow. And our president's been there for 19 years. Our founder is still there.

And I didn't come in as a leader. I came in as an AE and I worked my way up. I had opportunities to grow. And we had good people.

We had the best product in our niche. And I was always hitting the number. So it's like, why would I look to go somewhere else? Like I was always like over-achieving, so I felt like I had the right people, the right product, the right environment for me to succeed and you know, for founders out there or for people sellers listening, like if you find that, like, think really hard about leaving to try and go get a bigger, you know, OTE somewhere else because, you know, it's hard to get all of those in one single spot.

Yeah, it's it's funny. So I and Dale Dale can tell you this because he he actually coached me through this a little bit. I certainly was one who suffered from, um, shiny object syndrome. Grass is greener, you know, I I a little bit more money or a better product and, you know, gonna go jump and make that move and nine, eight times out of 10, it probably backfired.

Um, I think there's something for that stability. Um, and I think founders need to realize what the how you open this is the most important thing. People work for people. If you surround your team with great people, and I love how you said your leader, not your boss, not your manager.

That's a word that Dale and I use a lot. Um, if you surround yourself with great leaders, your people are much more likely to stay, be invested, and help you grow the business. And I promise you, you're gonna grow your business better with people who are there three, five, seven, 10 years versus this rotating door, um, at 18 months. Kudos to you for staying that long, man.

Yeah, and and I can attest, like, Donny's amazing. I've worked with Donny a little bit. He's an amazing leader. Um, and I and I and I also think, you know, the people that you have working with you as well, like, you know, me and you both know Matt really well.

Matt was amazing. Like it's not only the people that are leaders, it's also the people that work with you or or for you. Um, if you go through that process, it's much is easier when you're not trying to have to babysit people or like bring them along, like they're all on that ride together with you. I think it makes it much more, uh, easy for you to to go through that process.

Yeah. Yeah. It's really about building the right culture and I think Bullhorn has done a really good job of that. Not only just my leader, but our founder that's still with the organization, like I mean, it all starts from him and it trickles down.

He's the one that's created the culture that has permeated through the rest of the organization and he's part of the big reason why I I'm here as well. Like I believe in him. I believe in the direction and he's still very actively involved when we need him, which is, you know, super helpful as we've continued to get larger. Awesome.

So, let's we believe a lot and like there's failure that happens as you're growing the business. I mean, you've been there for 11 years. You've you've probably seen ups and downs. What's one of the things that you've learned that you failed that, but you learn through and give the audience like a couple of things on how you can change failure from a setback to a setup?

Yeah. Yeah, well, I've certainly failed a lot and I think that's part of, you know, I'm a very competitive person, so I don't like losing at anything, but, you know, one of the things I Go figure, you're in sales, imagine that. Yeah. I know.

Uh, one of the things that I think that we failed that early on was acquisitions. So since I've been at Bullhorn, we've had like, I don't know, 13 or 14 different acquisitions. And acquiring these companies and bringing them in. We talk about building a culture, right?

Well, a lot of these companies, there's some shared similarities in the culture, but it's also there's a lot of differences. So trying to integrate people in and trying to create the right resources to make that seamless was very difficult and it was hard on customers. Like customers hated it because it was a change. We lost customers along the way, which was super frustrating and we had to rethink the next time we did an acquisition, we had to learn from all the lessons that we did.

How do we make it better next time? So we can make it a repeatable process because that was part of the strategy for us to continue to grow. We were going to go acquire companies that complimented our tool set to be able to add more solutions to what we sell and expand the share of wallet. So, uh, I I think just integrating new people into the organization and taking their processes and integrating with ours.

That was we failed at that for, you know, our first couple of acquisitions. So. What what did Yeah, what's a couple of things that as founders are thinking about acquisition that they can do to like prevent some of that stuff? Is it better due diligence?

Like, I mean, you do a bunch of due diligence. Like, what are the things that you can do? And you're an operational guy. Maybe it's the operational side.

Hmm. Yeah. I think it was more on the operational side of like, we didn't when we first did, we had teams and there was due diligence on the, you know, financial pieces of it and all of that, but it's more of like, okay, now, once we do it, what's actually gonna happen? What are the action steps?

What's the team that's involved? And as we continued to make more, we put together operational teams to say, okay, here are like the key customers that they're the people we're calling on the first day to let them know what's our strategy? What's our plan? How we rolling down that message to the rest of the field on why we're making this acquisition, why it matters to them, what's our plan, what's our strategy so that everybody's on the same page.

So, I think it's more around the planning, the messaging, having a right team involved and and making sure the acquisition actually compliments Right. what you're actually, you know, the long term. And systems, right? I mean, some may be in HubSpot versus Salesforce, and now you got to convert.

Like, there's like, there's some of these things that you don't think about. And I think it's a little bit like an investment, like for a founder. Like, when they're going to get a Series A, like how do you map the investor to what's happening with the founder? Like, do you kind of like jive together?

And then like if you're converting all of your customers from Salesforce and HubSpot, or HubSpot and Salesforce, like that's a big migration that, you know, it could be two, three, four months. We we know, we've we had to convert a customer to a brand new instance of HubSpot. It's difficult. Yeah.

Luckily, I'm surrounded by some really smart people that know how to to help and make that, uh, come to fruition. So, again, it goes back to, you know, I'm lucky to be surrounded by a lot of great people at Bullhorn. Awesome. Awesome.

It's that's that's so refreshing to hear because we talk to a lot of people who are like, oh, like I have this one person I like or two people I like, but like hearing like there there's this whole team, right? Like a lot of great people. Um, and I I think that speaks to the company and probably, um, yourself as a leader as well. When you look at growing an org and you look at what I'll call broader alignment, right?

You have to align sales, marketing, success, RevOps, pre-sales, and solution engineer, all of that stuff. Um, a lot of people, I think, get that wrong. Um, and I arguably think alignment is becoming more of what I'll call like a bullshit term. Like we don't have to align.

We we might have to agree and move forward, but like we're we're probably not gonna align, but we need to pick the best path. As you've been growing teams and as you've, you know, come up through the ranks over 11 years, what are some creative approaches you take to drive that cross-functional alignment? Because you're working you're working big deals. Like you're you're not on the SMB side.

Um, like that requires a lot of alignment. How how do you how do you step outside of the box and encourage your team to step out outside of the box to really drive this cross-functional, I'll say, unity, um, instead of alignment? Yeah. That's a good question.

I I feel like, again, I feel like I might be sheltered because I've been at Bullhorn for so long that we've built such a good collaborative team rapport between our solutions consultants that are the people the technical experts that are gonna demo. Professional services that will deliver or we work with a lot of systems integrators that will go and implement the product, support. I I think a lot of it comes down to you've the bigger deals that you work, you almost have to build a better internal relationship than not necessarily external, but you you can't disregard the need to build those internal relationships because that's what really makes the deal go forward when you're like, crap, I need this customer has a specific need around understanding our support model or they want to understand our road map better. Well, it it's better coming from the lead of the product than from a salesperson.

So how can I create the picture with internally? Like, here's where I need you and here's why. And and it's building those internal alliances to help you move things forward. And I think it's more around just it's it's just creating that environment that everybody at Bullhorn's willing to help.

And again, I don't know if it's something that I can really break down the why behind it other than that's our culture. It's it's ownership. It's it's being human. It's, you know, speed and and urgency.

So, But that's it right there. You you did you actually did just answer the question. That's the culture. The culture is ownership.

The culture is being human. The culture is speed and urgency. How many cultures, Dale, have you worked for where the culture is like, I'll get to it when I get to it. Like there is no urgency.

Being human, like I I no joke had a founder, Keith, call me on pre-planned PTO in Scottsdale, Arizona and said, you need to come back cuz I'm working and you need to be working and you're not allowed to take time off. Like what what's human about that? Um, so what you just said is the answer. That's how you drive that alignment is that culture.

There's not enough emphasis in my mind placed on the importance of what makes culture. And culture isn't wine on tap and beer on tap and beanbags in the office. Culture is everything that you just spoke about. Yeah, that like to me that scenario that you just mentioned, like, I like that's like so foreign to me.

Like I've never had that It's it's the day it's the day Dale convinced me to go out on my own. Yeah, that was that was probably a pretty easy decision after that. Yeah, I mean, I I I think Dale could have told me I'd make $10 a year on that day and I would have been, great, where do I sign? It was it was it was months in the making, Keith.

Months in the making. But, um, so let's double click a little on culture, um, because I think it's easy to say it starts at the top and, you know, because I I do think that's where it all starts or fails. But how do you instill that culture? Like, let's give the audience a bit of like, how do you instill that culture below as as you're like building your team so that they can see the culture cuz they're probably not seeing as much from the Bullhorn founder that you have, you know, you've that's such big long relationship with.

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Yeah, well, part of that I I'll almost say they actually do have a very so we we do quarterly all hands. And at the beginning of all every all hands, we go over, what's our mission? The mission is to create incredible customer experience. And that's what the entire people at Bullhorn rally around.

It's like, if I'm asked to do something and it's going to help create a better experience for the customer, then I'm going to do it because that's our mission as an organization. And he always goes over the core values of the organization. Every single one, doesn't matter. And then we focus on one each quarter.

Like a different core value each quarter and, you know, that way, and then at the end, someone gets a an award based on who's exemplifying that core value. Like, you know, service, who's actually done it, what have they done and why and we do like a little like award ceremony each quarterly hands because it all goes back to, what's our mission, what are our core values, that should guide everything that we do. And if you don't align, that's okay, but you're probably not in the right place. Right.

It's a good way, it's a good way to weed people out that don't are looking for something different or don't align. But you said something very interesting, which was every quarter you guys are doing this. And I think it's easy when companies are smaller, like, I don't know, if you're under 50 people, under 75 people to have that quarterly meeting, but now that you guys are continuously doing the quarterly meeting, even as you grow up, um, 10 years later, I it's very commendable because I think people now want to target to that quarterly meeting, um, type of thing. So interesting.

Yeah. And then we've been doing that since I've been here. And now Bullhorn, we're about a half a billion, about 1300 people. So fact that we've continued to get to create that consistency and again, it all comes, it all comes from Art, who's the founder and it it it adds that consistency, it means a lot to the employees.

I I don't think I've met one person that I've hired that are not like, man, he's so inspiring or he's so like, he's genuine. He's not like a raw raw person. He's not he's very genuine, he's authentic, he's realistic. And when things aren't going well, like as you guys know, like the the last, you know, 2023 and the beginning of 2024 has been tough.

And he he's not the type that's like, okay, we're just gonna go do more or like, oh, that's not really the case. We just we just gotta do this. It's like, look, I understand like the data's there. You know, but we do need to focus on the things that we can control and these are the things that we can control.

So this is what we're this is where we're gonna go because when there's a snap back, we've already got the foundation to take it to the next level. Control the controllables. Huh what a concept. Let's um, let's shift gears a little.

Um, so, this was the first time you and I met in person. Um, I have subscribed to your newsletter for a while. I actually think I've messaged you many, many months back and I was like, this is one of the few ones I actually read to benefit from, not just to help our newsletter and see what else is out there. Um, and I do, I read I read it every morning.

I probably have a dozen of them saved in a file that I I go back to. And you focus very heavily on the power of visualization. Um, there was a point where I thought that all of those drawings were like things you downloaded from the like, I I I have no artistic ability. So like anyone who can draw anything other than like a little stick figure blows my mind.

Um, but I think you do a really good job at highlighting how visualization can help close sales, can help you understand like whatever it happens to be. Talk to me about where this mindset came from because most sales people are not visual people. So I love that you're kind of like changing the status quo and driving that in a way that I I personally find to be extremely relatable. Yeah, well, first of all, thank you.

I appreciate that. And I So it was 2009. I was working at Ceridian. I was a brand new This is my first job in SaaS.

And I was working with a senior solutions consultant on this big deal. Like I'm like just came in as an inbound. We were going on site to see them. He shows up and he's got like this architect tube on his back.

I'm like, what's that? He's like, oh, you'll see. So, we get in there and he uncrues it, he dumps out a bunch of markers. He's got rolled up paper and he starts putting them all over the wall and he's like, hey, this is gonna be It was a discovery meeting.

He's like, this is gonna be different than probably meetings that you've done in the past where you sit across a table and we ask questions. Like, he's like, and this is to the customer. He's, we're gonna really sit and we're gonna write down, we're process map, what are the challenges? What are you focused on?

What is the current state? Where are you looking to go? And it was like one of the most I still remember to this day. It was like the best meeting I've ever been on because super collaborative.

The customer would pick up the mark and be like, actually, it's this. And then they were like, hey, can you keep that here? Or can we take a picture of it? And from that day, I was like, okay, I got to learn how to do this because my previous meetings were like, I'm asking them questions from a script or I've got a PowerPoint deck and I can tell like, they've done this with like four other people already.

And it just wasn't very viable. So I'm like, how can I do something different? Not just to be different, but it's also gonna add value to the meeting. And for me, it was around learning how to whiteboard and have conversations without the necessity of a deck as a crutch and it helped me better internalize the message because I don't have that crutch of a of a deck.

You have to practice it. And it was different. So, you know, I've always been a big fan and I think it also helps with creativity, which is extremely important as a seller, to be able to think outside the box and do things differently. So, that's kind of the origin story, I guess.

Does your does your team whiteboard? Certain people on my team whiteboard. I certainly don't press them cuz and it is it is a skill that you can build. But just like any skill, it's something you get to work on.

Matt, you know, you know Matt, so like, what I love about Matt Dichter, who is a he's a VP of sales now, but he used to be on my team. He's the type of seller that he will take action and he prefers messy action over perfection. And when I started to say, hey, we're gonna start adding this to, he jumped right on it. I've got pictures and and you know, I've got pictures of his whiteboard still that he's done.

So, he picked it up right away. And then I've had a couple others that are are really big into it as well. So, I I I only know of Matt, um, because he's the only person I know that's put up with Dale for a long time in a coaching session. Um, but how do you Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

Keith, how do you get someone like me who legit has no artistic ability whatsoever? Um, like I I I I absolutely whiteboard, but like I I don't draw and I think most folks are used to whiteboarding in the sense of words. But I do, like again, one of the things I found so powerful is the images versus the it's just a different way of storytelling. How do you get someone like me to actually learn to do that?

And I'm asking for a very very personal and selfish reasons to be very clear here. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny.

I did a, you know, sales assembly came to me and they were like, hey, could you do a session for whiteboarding for our members? And you you'd be surprised how easy it is to do some of the whiteboarding that I do. Like, I there's five shapes. If you can learn if you can do a circle, a triangle, a square, a line, and a dot, you can basically depict anything because, Okay.

If you're gonna circle. You lost him at circle. That that that that that's the one with three points, right? You'd be surprised.

So I went through an exercise with them and I said, okay, let's take some words that you typically hear in your sales cycle and I'm gonna show you just with those five shapes, you can draw whatever you want. So we did things like automation, integration, uh, growth. Like, it's really a growth is one line, another line, and then a squiggly arrow. You know, it's just So it's really about building a visual vocabulary and the thing is, you can use one icon for like, you know, multiple different words.

So you don't need an expansive visual vocabulary. So it's a lot easier than you may think. So, you know, maybe maybe we'll spend some time and I'll I'll give you some pointers sometime. I love it.

Visual vocabulary. That's a that's a win. That's a wrap, folks. Thanks No, I'm kidding.

Actually, actually, Keith set up at some point, you have to see Keith set up cuz he's got this board and it's all black. His setup is like legit. I like it. Yeah, it's right here.

Yeah. Right right in my face. Do you do you use neon blackboard, neon markers? So, it's it's actually this company called Revolution Light Boards.

So it's a glass, it's a pane of glass that has lights around it that illuminate it. And then I just have a black backdrop behind me and the markers are neon. But I I I literally pulled this up as we're talking. This is super cool.

Isn't it awesome? They're a great company. The product is awesome. And it's just I love it.

It's, you know, definitely check it out. Very cool. Very very cool. You still lost him at circle.

That could still be an issue. I mean, listen. It is what it is. So from a visual vocabulary perspective, so I really like that term.

Um, talk to me a little bit or talk to your audience a little bit, like what are three things that you've seen change in your sales process or the buyer's reaction to that visual vocabulary? Yeah. I think one, it's just different, right? I think corporate Visions did a study a while ago where it was like, only 6% of sellers incorporated any type of whiteboarding and then virtually four like less than 4%.

So right there is a blue ocean, right? If no one else is doing it and you're doing it, that is, you know, you're clearly you're you're differentiating yourself there. Also, you know, there's a ton of studies around the way that our brains process images over text, right? It's like 60,000 times faster when you see an image than if you were to read text.

And so, for me, using visuals just adds more it adds a differentiator. It it makes it easier for people to understand because again, I'm not I'm not up there drawing a Mona Lisa. I'm drawing squares and circles and it also helps with memory retention big time. Not only for me if I'm planning a a talk where I'm going to be using a whiteboard, I've got to plan it out.

But the simple visuals help it stick in my brain and the the same is true for a customer. The visuals help with memory retention, which is important as a seller, like you wanna make sure that you're differentiated. They agree you're differentiated and they can also remember what you've said amongst all the other competitors that are also vying for their business. Mm.

Cool. I love it. I think that there's not enough use of visuals out there. We're used to getting these emails that are, you know, paragraphs long and these case studies that are paragraphs long.

Um, but when you put pictures to it, it it simplifies it. Um, I just need to learn to figure out what a circle is. Um, so last question before we get into some rapid fire and wrap it up. Um, whether you're a startup or whether you are a, you know, established company, um, like Bullhorn.

I think there's for sellers, um, this struggle between innovation and perfection of execution, right? Do we ship this now or do we wait for it to be perfect? Do we make this slide deck perfect or do we roll with it because we have to go into this meeting? How do you balance that for your team of like, when is good enough and when does it need to be perfect?

Yeah. That and that's probably one where I can get better at because I'm I'm a very like detail-oriented. I don't wanna say I have OCD, but like if you come to me and you have a PowerPoint that has different like you have different fonts on it, like you forgot to change the font. Yes.

Yes. It drives me wild. A a Google Doc that has all the wrong like it should be header two but it's really header three and you think it's okay to ship that. Yeah.

We're speaking the same language. Dale, take note. Well, that's that's why I send it over to you. I send it over to my EA to fix it.

So good. Fact. Yeah. But I I really appreciate those people that don't get lost in the details like I do sometimes where they can just say, I get that but you're missing the bigger picture is like we've got to go like we've got to go faster and we can make the changes along the way to make things better.

What we can't do is just be paralyzed saying it needs to be perfect before we actually ship it. And that's something that like I said, I've struggled with it's like, it's not perfect yet, we can't do it where a lot of my other leaders are like, you know, they're already two weeks ahead of me because they're not worried about what the colors and the fonts and things look like. They just go ship it and they iterate over time. Love it.

All right, let's uh, let's wrap it up with some rapid fire. This was super insightful, certainly for me. Um, but we're not I'm not the one we're trying to please, but I have no doubt that the founders and revenue leaders, um, who are listening are able to get a ton of value out of this and we'll talk. I'd love to circle back on what we could do with helping some of those folks with, um, visualization.

Um, all right. So Dale asked you at the beginning of the show, if you weren't in sales, what part of the revenue ecosystem you would be in? I'm actually gonna shift this for a second. Keith, you cannot be in tech.

Tech is dead to you. What are you doing for the rest of your life? What job? Where where are you going to work?

What profession? This is gonna seem really really weird, but over the weekend, the last two weekends, I've been power washing my house. And there's something so satisfying about power washing. Like just seeing the the dirt go away.

I I honestly I actually think I would start like a, you know, like a small power washing business to be honest with you. I love it. So a little fun fact, we had our house power wash the other day and I was talking to the guy who owns the company, uh, former tech sales executive, got burnt out, started this business five years ago. Now has three trucks and according to him, he's like, I make just under $2 million a year.

He's like, yes, it's it's manual like I'm busting my ass. He's like, but I love it. No one bothers me. The sexiest jobs are not necessarily the ones that pay the most, folks.

Yeah. That's funny. So, um, we've been talking a lot of founders lately, but coming back to the sales leaders world, I I I've enjoyed this this question. What song best describes your revenue strategy?

Ooh. Man. Maybe all I do is win by DJ Khalid. Nice.

That's that's Dale's walk up that's Dale's walkout song. That's right. Keith, early bird or night owl, man? Early bird all day like and everybody in my team knows it.

What's the first app you check when you wake up then? Uh, I So probably Todoist, which is my like task manager. See see what's on the agenda for the for the day. I tried that app a while ago and never never got into it.

But I I I need I have shit in so many different places that I need to figure, uh, something out. What um, what would be the one word to describe your sales career so far? 11 and a half years. You got to sum it down to one word.

Gratitude. That's a great one. That's awesome. I like it.

Okay, let's All right, Dale, take us home, man. Yep. Keith, earlier in the show you said you were going to be a revenue RevOps leader. Is tomorrow morning, what's the first thing you're doing as a RevOps leader?

Lowering quotas. Ooh. Like that. Love that.

Everyone wants to everyone wants to work for Keith. Keith, I um, I cannot thank you enough for joining us, man. This was super insightful, uh, super helpful. If people want to learn more, they want your visualization tips, and we'll include a link, but for anyone listening who isn't reading the show notes, where can they subscribe to your newsletter?

How how could they get all these great tips every Saturday? LinkedIn, just find me on LinkedIn, Keith Waitman and it's right, you know, you can subscribe right there either in the feature section or I have a link at the top, but Yeah. Go subscribe. I'm telling you, I don't read a lot of them.

You will get value out of this every single week. Keith, thanks for joining us, man. It was a pleasure. Thanks, Keith.

Thanks, guys. Appreciate it. Appreciate you.