How Taelor Is Changing the $140B Men’s Fashion Market

Anya Chang, Founder and CEO of Taelor, details her leap from massive tech conglomerates like Meta and Target to the startup trenches. She shares a profound realization about Go-To-Market strategy: Taelor isn't selling clothes; they're selling the 'chance to succeed' and 'peace of mind.' This paradigm shift entirely changed their target audience from fashion enthusiasts to goal-oriented men looking to optimize their time and avoid decision fatigue. Beyond just a styling service, Taelor's AI-driven rental platform solves massive inefficiencies in the $140B men's apparel market. By utilizing a zero-inventory model and sending detailed customer feedback back to brands, Taelor helps mitigate the 30% of manufactured clothing that typically ends up in landfills. The episode highlights the importance of iterating GTM strategies, targeting niche audiences to enable expansive growth, and prioritizing behavioral problem-solving over flashy, unnecessary technology features.

Discussed in this episode

How transitioning from big tech to an early-stage startup drastically compresses emotional highs and lows into mere months.
Unlearning the assumption that you are selling your literal product, and instead focusing on ultimate outcomes and peace of mind.
Pivoting target audiences from category enthusiasts to goal-driven professionals who suffer from extreme decision fatigue.
Taelor's unique zero-inventory model that leverages brand partnerships to rent out clothing without upfront purchasing costs.
Utilizing AI-gathered customer feedback on fit and style to help fashion brands reduce the 30% of clothing that ends up in landfills.
How decision fatigue in male consumers opened up a highly profitable, untapped wedge in the $140B men's apparel market.
The failure of Target's AR/VR store GPS as a lesson that new technology must solve a real consumer problem, not interrupt their desired experience.
Why growth leaders must focus on detailed, iterative GTM progress rather than obsessing solely over day-one customer acquisition costs.

Episode highlights

0:00 — Introduction and Taelor's mission
2:15 — Leaving big tech for founder life
5:30 — Unlearning product-centric GTM assumptions
8:45 — Selling a chance to succeed, not clothes
12:10 — Taelor's AI edge in a crowded space
16:00 — Turning consumer data into brand retention
19:20 — Discovering true customer behavior and intent
23:45 — Taelor's zero-inventory margin strategy
27:15 — Teaching product management and solving real problems
32:00 — Why initial CAC is a flawed GTM metric

Key takeaways

Sell the ultimate outcome and peace of mind, not the literal product.
Technology is useless if it doesn't solve a real customer problem.
Partner with your suppliers to create zero-inventory, high-margin business models.
Niche down to a highly specific audience to enable cost-effective growth.
Go-to-market is an iterative journey, not a day-one CAC calculation.

Transcript

When we started, we thought we were selling clothes. That's not true at all. Tesla never really sell car. about the cool technology, the modern, you are more cutting edge than other people.

Personalization is no longer a nice to have. It is the entire game. How we are really selling is a convenience, is a piece of mind, and also is the chance to succeed. Welcome back to another episode of the Bridge the Gap podcast.

Powered by Revenue Reimagined. Today's guest is Anya Chang. She's the founder and CEO of Taylor, which we were just talking about and we'll talk about a little bit more. and a GTM operator who's moved from Facebook, eBay and Target, these small little companies some of you might have heard of into the startup trenches.

She's built teams, launched global products and now she's on a mission to change how men discover and wear clothes using AI. This episode is going to be about what it takes to innovate in crowded categories, the GTM playbooks that actually transfer from enterprise to early stage and why personalization is no longer a nice to have. It is the entire game. Anya, thanks for joining the show.

Hello, hello. This is Anya from Taylor AI. We offer AI stylists. So unlike traditionally celebrity have stylists.

Now use AI, you can all have stylists and we help people to offer clothes for them to rent so you don't have to do shopping or laundry. Before starting a company, 15 years in big tech companies before, most recent at Meta, where I helped build out Facebook, Instagram shopping, had a product for eBay classified, help and launch new business in the US, Latin America, Africa, Asia, and senior directors at McDonald's, help and launch food delivery business when Uber just started and in store technology, as well as helping Target to build their tech office here in Silicon Valley. I'm excited to be here. Awesome.

Glad to have you. This is that was a great lead into my first question for you, which is from Big Tech to founder life. What what made you what made you make the leap from Facebook, eBay, Target to launch your own startup? And what did that shift really look like for you?

Cool. Uh, so when I was working for Meta, I was only a few female executive with color. I led large technology team and I felt imposter syndrome. So, I wanted to look great, so I start trying some subscription boxes, Stitch Fix, and similar to the old trunk club, but all of these amazing, they do have styless style you, but once you receive the box, the moment you have to decide if you are going to buy.

And there's a lot of my spaces. How many times am I going to wear these clothes? How do I pair with these clothes? Do I need to do ironing and foldings?

And how do I is can I find any places that's cheaper? So, I didn't like the model and for Dale, go to New York often, you will know how small the space is there and people hate laundry there. So, I start renting. I use company like newly, which is a 500 million revenue company that's just five years old.

And run a runway, but all of these require me to pick 100,000 garments, spend two hours in picking and picking and picking. So, I had a aha moment that I realized fashion company has been designing for people who love fashion. They haven't been designing for people who are not into fashion at all but need to do good. Turn out there are a lot of people think like me, but they are all men.

Sales guy, single guy, hey shopping, hey laundry, and that's why Taylor was born. And happen to be a right era as well, with AI in the place. Now, we can easily do AI styling with AI stylists. I love that.

So, I I I love the idea. I have used Dale's are going to be very shocked. Um, things like trunk club, etc. I'm not always in in a hoodie.

Um, and I think it's definitely something that's needed because I will say often I have zero sense of style whatsoever. Um, I don't decorate, I don't do anything. Um, so going from these large mammoth companies to being a founder. What was the first surprise?

Like, what was the biggest surprise that you were like, man, this is different. I think one thing if people ask me like what your last 10 years, they people always have up and down, right? You have the moment you are so proud. I want maybe award, best app of the years, and forty under forty for girls.

And then you also have a really down moment. You really hate this manager. You hate to go up and every morning you wake up, you wish it's Sunday. So, if you're looking back on your last 10 years, those are up and down.

And imagine in founder life, you're going to express that kind of level of up and down within 10 months. So, that will be more like founder life. And the same thing when I was working for big tech company, most of people, I feel like people are very different. We're so diverse.

We have people from Indonesia and Italy, and New Yorkers and for and in fact, after becoming a founder, I realized when I work for big tech company, everybody think the same. Because after becoming a founder, you start to I in the last one year, I met over almost 10 C-level executive or Fortune 100 companies, so does their founders. And I also work closely with our team who might be blue collar workers or we actually at one point we are not don't have enough people to pack because we got really good sales of a month. So then my my colleague and I drove to Home Depot and ask everyone, English, English, English, whoever say yes, we say get on the car, and then we drove them to a warehouse and start packing.

So, founder life is very different. You meet a lot of people. They think don't they don't think like you at all. What do you mean OKR?

Never heard of it. We need a KPR. What's that? We need a road map.

What's road maps? Like people don't think like you. But I also appreciate that my life became bigger, because you know, before becoming a founder, I never notice anyone in my community trimming those trees or delivering Amazon and the garbage will get take out. The work is supposed to be the Amazon shows up here on time, is supposed to be.

But after becoming a founder, I have so much appreciation because I know the package arrive there because there's someone there's a merchant sourcing the product. There's someone packing the warehouse. There's someone shipping with the post office. There's someone coming here with logistic of return return or logistic technology.

There's engineer behind it. There's AI machine learning person trying to optimize the best route. There's so much work behind the simple package like package shows up on time. So, I realized my work has become bigger and I have a lot more empathy for the world.

And also when I start becoming a founder, I I feel like the war is evil. And when I go to Chamber of Commerce, when I use work for Meta or eBay, when I go to any event, people like to talk to me. Oh, Anya, yeah, we like to work with Facebook. And can we check next week?

Oh, by the way, my son is applying for a job there. There's always someone want to talk to you. What, you are CEO of Taylor? Tay Taylor, T A E L O R, what's that?

Oh, and it turn around and talk to IPO founder or turn around and talk to this millionaire. And I realized, oh, people are not very nice. At the beginning, I hated. I feel like this word is not fair.

People are so not right. But then I realized this actually a blessing, because you start seeing people who genuinely want to help you. People who appreciate your knowledge and like your personality and like what you do, and that's why you start talking. And you see customer appreciate your service, deliver value, so they're more engaged.

You earn what you have, not because of the logo on your business card. And I think I realized that I am actually a blessing. Very, very uh, very insightful and very articulate of kind of where you're where you've been and and now where you're going. We I mean, Emma and I and our other business partner have been in big companies as well.

We enjoy helping one of the reasons why we started Revenue Reimagine was to help more of the people that are trying to get the go-to market strategy out into the market. And so we can definitely appreciate that conversation. Um, as you went from big tech into your startup world, what's one go-to-market assumption that you had to unlearn immediately? Yeah, I think, uh, when we started, we thought we were selling clothes.

Yeah, because we style you and we sell you clothes and people buy clothes as well. We send out five item for people to rent. On average, people buy two, and they wear another three, and then they return the clothes, we send to all the people. We are selling clothes.

That's not true at all. But just like Coca-Cola, they never sell soda. They sell dreams, sell freedoms, right? Tesla never really sell car.

It's about the cool technology, the modern, you are more cutting edge than other people. When you drive the gas car, it's not about the car. You actually were like, I'm more sustainable. I'm helping the environment.

We realize what our customer really buy is a piece of mind. I got ready to go. I'm ready to rock. I'm on this podcast.

I'm on this sales event. I'm going to this conference. I'm the keynote speaker. I'm going on date night for the second time.

Whatever the occasion is, is a piece of mind. I'm ready. They can be themselves because they don't have to worry about all the stuff. They focus on the conversation, the knowledge, at present.

We realize what we are selling is a gate guy behind the superhero. We're selling a concierge service, the convenience, the executive assistance for those guy. And that's why our customers start asking us, where do I get my hair cut? Oh, we are closing company.

Where where to buy shoes? These shoes look good. Am I should I use this belt and how about these sunglasses, these heads? Like which one do you think is better?

Oh, by the way, Valentine's is around the corner. Do you sell jewelry? Flowers? What should I bring to the day night, right?

So, I realized we are helping them to get ready for their day and what we are really selling is a convenience, is a piece of mind, and also is the chance to succeed. And there's a moment that we realize that for example, when we're doing go-to-market, doing marketing, we no longer target people who are fashionable. We target people who are achieving goals. We target people who are the um the financial consultants who actually help people how to make more money.

We working with dating coach to help people to go get ready for the day night. We partner with dating site like Coffee Meets Bagel. We sell to corporation that have large sales organization, so then they offer us employer per so then their sales look good and the money go back to the company. So, entirely change our go to market because we realize we are how we are really selling the real value behind is a chance to succeed.

I like it. I I just think I could see a lot of how a lot of those partnerships would work. Anya, we we're so used to hearing about AI in the go to market space when it comes to tech, right? You know, everyone thinks of AI and they're like, okay, I'm going to go to Claude or Chat GPT or Gemini and I'm going to have it make some cold emails or I'm going to ask it to help like with a strategy.

But you're sitting at a different definition of AI with kind of personalization for sure, but in in the commerce space. Taylor, it's an AI powered styling platform. Crowded space. What's the wedge?

What makes you different and why did you want to get into this space? Yeah, it's a 42% of men in the apparel market and it's a 140 billion every year. Uh, but both of guy who you a lot of people know, probably wear the same thing again and again last 10 years. And open their closet, they have five different brand, new Lululemon, Nike, Banana Republic and Brooks Brother.

And every Thanksgiving they buy the same thing. But in fact, if you ask You bet on Adam's closet? Yeah, or we ask people, they're like, I don't even know what I have because my wife buy all of my clothes, right? So, but in fact, you ask them, do they really like to be Steve Jobs wearing exactly the same thing?

No, they actually don't want that. One time I went to a conference and the person's the speaker right next to me. He get on, he's like, wow, if you add me on LinkedIn right now, you will realize I'm wearing the same blazer that I had 10 years ago, which was my LinkedIn profile. And he said, I probably should talk to Anya.

So, I think a lot of them, a lot of place selling clothes, but either you have to buy or you have to pick. So, because that then people tend to either if you have to buy, you tend to only use it like once a while, like your trunk club. You're probably not using it every month because you have to buy, then you have too much stuff at home. And nowadays, owning isn't always a good thing.

Uber is convenient because you don't have to park. Netflix is good because you don't have to buy DVD, right? So, owning versus ownership, now people have different definition. So, in our model, because it's rental, because it's style you.

So, those two combined it help people that they don't have to have commitment. And that's a big thing for our customer because for sales guy, single guy, they don't like commitments. And don't like they don't like use their mind space for small things like this. Yeah, and then on the other hand is that because we pick the clothes for men, so for sure you're going to give me feedback.

Oh, the sleeve too long, one inch needed for my shoulder. And those amazing feedback actually feed we feedback to the fashion brand. Today, 30% of clothes go directly from factory to landfill. 30 billion in the US alone go go to landfill every year.

And that's a lot of money they can put back to the fashion brand. So, we use this amazing data as AI agents and then helping the fashion brand to help them to reduce future inventory and increase future sales. People buy from people. That's why companies who invest in meaningful connections win.

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com. That's super interesting and so you're you're you're helping the consumer but also the brand themselves, like make sure that they are capturing uh opportunities or data, which let me to another question that I was thinking about it because I would think you have a lot of one-off sales from like a rental perspective. How are you turning that data that you're gathering through that process into retention and not just using it as acquisition? Uh, for retention, of course, it's easy because then if you can wear or lose where you provide feedback, then next time we do better.

So, that's more straightforward like your Netflix show. I like this. Now, I all I open is all like Korean dramas and and so it just it they help the retention for sure. But those data help fashion brand is another story.

So, imagine you are a fashion brand, you outsource this manufacturer to a big manufacturer. The manufacturer outsourced to a small manufacturer and small manufacturer. After you receive the clothes, you sell it to a whole big wholesaler, then sell to a small wholesaler. Eventually, customer buy the Nike in the store, is actually like six steps before the true manufacturer actually made the clothes.

As a result, they really don't have great insight. And that's why 30% of clothes goes to landfill. Every year they create junk. And nobody like to create junk, but it's just very not a lot of insight back to them.

They might know, oh, it's too big. What does it mean? Whose shoulder is too big? Sleeves too long?

1 in, 1 and a half inch, 0.45 inch, and it's from who? From Dale who travel usually to New York, and from Adam who wear these clothes after we have been running three times, so after washing three times, it get loose or it get shrink, and that's why it's too small, right? So, they don't have really detailed actionable insight.

As a result, they just keep producing junk. And that's how we are using those insight back to them. And this part also fit into AI, so nobody have to remember those informations. Super interesting.

The amount of data you get blows my mind. when when you let's talk human behavior for a second. So, you have a ton of data, you know what people wear, you know what people return, you learn what people's styles are. I'm sure you then do all sorts of things matching it to height, weight, all sorts of other things.

But what have you learned about human behavior that Taylor's tech actually needed to catch up to? Yeah, for example, we do ask when people signed up, people usually ask us, how do you AI know my style or sizing? So, we ask people some questions, such as their height and weight, which we don't always use, because most guy think they are taller and thinner. So, they provide the information that's not most accurate.

So, realize, oh, everyone think they are taller. Okay, great. So, we ask them, okay, go to your closet, pick your favorite outfit and tell me what brand and what sizes is. No problem.

I'm definitely size small. Oh my God, I'm actually extra large. So, it happened all the time and so we ask people about their feet issue, usually sleep too long, bodies too tight, and we also learn a lot about it's not about looking good, it's about looking good to achieve a goal. For example, when you go to conference, we send you a very interesting print shorts.

People come to you like, wow, that's very interesting print with a dolphin on it, nice shirt. And it become a conversation opener. So, now they are talking and then eventually the code steal your in conference. Or they go on day night, we say, okay, how about this one more blazer?

So, then when you get out of restaurants and now you can put the blazer on the lady's shoulders and you score your second date. So, it's about the goal behind, to achieve that goal, and it's not just about looking good. I love that. And and as as you, Dale's just thinking of all the clothes he could get.

Yeah, I'm just thinking about like the rental piece is very interesting to me because like there is a lot of landfill that ends up happening, right? You're like, okay, I'll wear this for a period of time, then you like you don't wear it anymore. Um, and so one of the things that I had been thinking about is using like why you picked men's wear, which I think we talked about a lot. Um, but do you think that particular segment of the market is more ripe for utilizing your service versus the the female market?

Like have you guys thought about going into the female market? What was the are you guys going to expand? Like I'm just curious where that where your heads are as you as you get more data. Yeah, we're not.

We're very focused. Uh, today, uh, men's market is a 140 billion dollars. If you look at women's space, it's 57% of the market. And men is 42 something% of the market.

And uh, there are actually 10 company in the women's space, but each of them only have less than single digits of the the market share, just because the apparel market is so big. So, for bigger player like Newly, they make 500 million revenue, back by Urban Outfitters. And the revenue they made has bypassed the wholesale segment, which they spend 30 years to build. So, we asked them the same question, like, why are you not doing woman?

And why are you only doing woman? And they say like, oh, I only get less than 1% of market share now. Like I'm not interested in going any other places. But for our model, because I think fundamentally the problem we are solving is entirely different.

The financial business model is also entirely differently. Women rent dress because we want to wear different things every day. As a result, we will never buy the clothes. Why would you buy?

Just like your Netflix show, you can watch it every day, why would you buy the DVD? Right? So, but on in men's market, our customer not using us to wear different things every day. They use it more like try before they buy.

They use us a concierge service to support them. So, So do you so if you would you do you sell your product to the man after he rents it? Is that the concept? That's right.

So, when I sell five, rent out five items, on average people buy two. On average, renting three times the item gets sold already. And every item gets sold, we make over 57% margin, because fashion is actually very high margin business. In if you know the e-commerce business, you I'm sure you know that uh the fashion is in high margin, but they are all afraid of inventory.

But in our model, because we pick clothes for men, therefore we have zero inventory. Just like your Uber car, you don't pick the car. So, as long as you're an Uber driver, you for sure will get customer. And we are membership.

So, we know customer, we know Dale's body type, Adam's goal before you guys became a customer. So, of course we have inventory now with 150 different brands. And the moment that you onboard, we will send you something, but as we are sourcing, we will for sure source exactly what you need because we already know who is going to rent them and we're going to assign stuff to you so you don't have to pick. As a result, we don't have to buy inventory at all.

Because we were with fashion brand. We say, hey, um brands, you can send me clothes and I will pay you nothing. But don't worry, starting tomorrow, I'm going to rent it out because I pick the clothes. So, you're going to my AI pick the clothes.

So, Adam for sure is going to wear clothes and he pays a monthly fee, which every time he rents, I will pay you something. So, eventually you are going to make your wholesale money back and probably even more because people will buy the clothes. So, we have no inventory, we don't have to buy things up front. And but for fashion brand, we get something out of their their warehouse for free.

And we also help them to promote to our customer, and every time people renting, they get feedback as well. So, we for customer, win for the wholesalers or brands and win for Taylor. Yeah, so it's it's brand exposure for your vendors for sure. Um, you know, something that I wouldn't have walked into a store and taken off the shelf or ever purchased.

Um, you're actually getting it in my hands and then from their point of view, like maybe I've fallen in love with their brand. Hopefully I keep using Taylor, but now I love Dale's shirt brand that I'm going to go buy that brand outside of what I'm getting from Taylor. Um, I think that makes a ton of sense. Anya, you've talked about the psychology of decision fatigue.

How does that actually show up in your go-to-market? Because like when you look at AI or you look at choose and clothes or you look at all these options, or you know, I have to choose this month and next month. Like how does decision fatigue show up in your go-to-market and how do you address that? Yeah, I think so, um, uh, when we're going to, for example, when we are partnering with corporates that's helping employee to as employee give and per, that's for sure they're helping their employee not having to pick the clothes, so then they save more time, right?

And then when we are doing the marketing side of house, what we are promoting is that you have you can save more of your mind spaces, and the time that you save in shopping and laundry, now it goes through your video game, your day night or you're more time with your family. And so, I think so because we are very clear our our audience are we are not selling, if you think analogy of the cleaning business, we are not selling clean supply. We are selling the may service. So, we don't advertising on GQ, even though we rank number one by GQ and Vogue, but because our customers will never read GQ.

They are actually people who talk about sports and um F1s and or where NBA and basketball. So, we actually our true. So, we actually have partner with more of those influencers, on those things or ambassadors and uh so even for podcast hosts like you guys and um for talk about careers or business, actually are more relevant to our audience than the fashion side of house. Yeah, it it's interesting what you're selling versus what your product is.

Um, I actually think that's a a great correlation that you talk about, right? Like Coke isn't selling Coke, you're not selling clothes. Um, I think that's something that a lot of people should take a look at when they're looking at what their value proposition is. What are you what what are you selling and what does your product allow people to have?

So, tying back into product. So, I I read that you teach product and marketing at Northwestern. Um, what trends are you helping the next wave of leaders prepare for? Where where where's the world going?

What are you teaching? Yeah, I teach product management and um so that means building app, building websites. Uh, I will say if it's uh one key takeaway that I always tell my student is that, um, it's end of day, whatever AI or technologies, like you have to solve a problem, right? So, for example, when I was at Target, we we our colleagues, they really think at that time was really cool in terms of AR VR, like you will go to the store, potentially become this AR VR, you can see these culture in your living rooms.

And then you go on this IO, suddenly now you can see these commercials and you know like the word is perfect, they will guide you through the store, you have shopping lists, it become a store GPS, turn right and turn left, you never miss item in the store. Sounds so cool. They launch it. Nobody use it.

Whoa, but mom go to the store, sometimes they forgot the milk. They come out like, oh, I forgot to want to buy one thing. I'm solving the problem. Yeah, but mom go to the store to get lost.

They don't want to use store GPS. It's a time for their me time. It's a time for them to get away from. Everyone's that you go to you go to Target for 10 minutes and you stay there for two hours.

Exactly. It's a time for them to get away from their husbands, right? So, why would they want to install GPS? Yeah, they might get forget one thing, so then they give an excuse.

Oh, sorry, I have to can you take care of the kids? I have to go back to buy the egg and milk, right? So, So, I I think so eventually you have to know what's the true problem you are solving, and the problem really big enough. So, the same thing when I was at Target, at that time AI wasn't as cool as now.

So, but we are ready cutting edge. We say we're going to use AI to snap a picture. AI will write all the descriptions and then people can sell it faster. So, at that time we launch it, actually not a lot of people use it.

Why? We start doing research and realize people who sell, especially for individual, they really care the accuracy of their description. They care the item sell. So, they actually don't mind spending time to make sure it's all right and all good and feel great and they're ready to sell a good price.

So, eventually I think technology come and go, and if you are really not solving the problem, then you won't have an opportunity, even though it's a cool thing. There's no reason why people use it. When I was at Sears, uh, I our website was faster than Amazon. But it didn't bring business for the company because if no one want to buy your product, why would they want a fast website, right?

So, so end of day like do you have the value pro, like Apple is easy to use, Android is has a lot of functionality. Both of them are amazing, but very different product. LeBron is more good in defense and Curry is really good in three-pointer. They are very different.

Can you drop me a basketball knowledge today? Right? So, So, but they are different. You only need one value problem to do very, very well because at startup, we don't have a lot of money.

So, how is it possible you do check, check, check, check, check, check everything that's not possible, unless you hire Adam and Dale. But usually the easier to succeed will be a big check. Like I'm doing this better than anyone else. It is uh, one of the things we talk about with a lot of our our clients is niche down to make expensive growth because you can't do everything for everybody.

And so one of the things we do when we first come into a lot of our clients is like what is it that you're really focusing in on? How can you execute extremely well in that space and then you can grow? Yeah, that's a good strategy. My mentor who is the founder of Rotten Tomato, and he said, if you look at Rotten Tomato, the only thing that matter is the meter, like how much score is the movie.

They can remove everything else, but that's the score that people care. The same thing for Google. It start with just a box. There's nothing else.

The search of things behind. YouTube, YouTube founders, one of our investor, he say that it's about upload a video and find an audience. They do so well, they Google had to buy them. Instagram, it just snap a picture with a filter so people cannot see your true face.

And then Facebook have to buy it. So, you just do one thing very well. Like Google beat Yahoo. And at that time Yahoo has Yahoo Finance, Yahoo Movie, Yahoo everything.

But still Google beat Yahoo. Up up up until about three months ago, my wife still had a Yahoo email address and I was speaking to a prospect yesterday who still uses a Hotmail email address to let you know how old and antiquated they are. Think about what their go-to-market motion is, Dale. But you you don't know that you have an AOL email, so.

I don't have an AOL email. Yeah, you do. I I do not. Oh, how about I find one?

Let me see if I have one. I I I have an original Apple email. I have a me.com.

Um and I will probably never ever ever get rid of it. Um, all right, let's move into some rapid fire as we wrap it up. So here here's the rules, Anya. We try to keep these answers to 10 words or less.

Every time you go over 10 words, Dale tells me I have to pay him money. Um, so say save my pocket a little bit. Uh, what was the harder job? Leading inside of Meta or outside now as a founder?

I think it's uh, outside being a founder because you actually have to be a lot of different roles. Mmm. What's one AI tool you actually use every day besides Taylor? Uh, we do use uh Otter and I see they transcribe and see what's the action item I'm supposed to, what I owe for Adam for whatever promotion material, for example.

There you go. I love it. How do you personally reset when the founder roller coaster that we all know so well gets it's gets so intense? Uh, I hold my cat and then uh tell him whatever I'm not happy about, and I'm lucky because my husband is a chef, so he could go food.

Nice. What's the what's your most under what's the most underrated product hire? Oh, good one. I don't uh, say that again?

What's the most underrated product hire? Like when you hire your product your product team, what's the most underrated product hire? Uh, you mean the character I'm looking for? No, just like if you're like whoever you hire on your product team, what's the person that's most underrated on that product team?

Underrated. Or said differently, who's the most important product hire? That doesn't get enough credit. Hmm.

I think we'll be someone who really good in um, growth. What I mean is that they actually know how to do the detailed iterations, because people tend to like to open new feature, because new feature is cooler. But it's a growth guy, the iteration to make it right. Love that.

Last one for me. I'm and then Dale will end with his famous last one. Anya, what's the go-to-market metric that you think is most often misunderstood? Hmm.

I think people tend to just think about I think people when go to market, people only tend to think about what's the CAC? What's how much is cost customer acquisition cost? Yep. But I I don't believe that uh doing go to market is something that on one day one, like we we got a this a thousand emails and we send out to them.

How many people are now buying? I don't think that's ever the process. It's always a journey. Like you iterated, iterated, iterated, you find a great, you launch this a bunch of video, you find a good video with the insight and you launch a new one to replace this all ones, and it's always iterated process.

So, I think people are just looking at CAC from a get-go for those one-time thing is what people make mistakes. Love it. Last one. What is your dream vacation destination?

Uh, I think Spain. I think the seafood is so good. Uh, and then I probably will go back to I'm cheating. I'm getting a second answer, is I I got married two years ago, went to Bora Bora, Tahiti for honeymoon.

It was very, very nice. Any founder, when you sell your company, you should go to Bora Bora. Very nice. Nice.

Anya Chan, thank you so much for joining the show. Where can people check out Taylor? Because it's not spelled traditionally. Where can our audience go to get some really cool styling and where's Dale going to go get some styling?

You can go on tailor.style T A E Yeah. T A E L O R dot S T Y L E T tailor.style.

And use the code podcast 25 to get 25% off first month. So you looks great. And if you are investors, suppliers, business partners, for dating sites, career centers, and fitness center, feel free to reach out to me. I'm Anya A N Y A at tailor.

ai. T A E L O R dot AI. Awesome. Anya, thank you so much for joining the show.

Thank you.