Giving Meaningful Gifts Drives Growth ft. Kris Rudeegraap | Revenue Reimagined Ep. 049

Kris Rudeegraap's journey to founding Sendoso began as a full-cycle account executive who was frustrated by the overwhelming noise of automated email sequences. Realizing that standing out required tangible, personalized touchpoints, he initially resorted to manually packing marketing swag and writing notes to prospects. This scrappy approach proved highly effective but lacked scalability, ultimately inspiring him to build a platform that automates and integrates the entire gifting and direct mail process, turning a logistical nightmare into a seamless go-to-market strategy. The core of effective gifting isn't about the price tag; it's about relevance, timing, and proving that you actually listen to the prospect. Kris highlights that sending generic, cheap items can actually damage your brand and waste the potential of the gifting channel. Instead, he advocates for leveraging AI to automate the tedious research phase of prospecting. By using AI to scan social feeds and intent data, sales reps can focus their energy on crafting the perfect message and sending hyper-relevant gifts that naturally align with the buyer's journey. Beyond initial prospect outreach, gifting is rapidly expanding across the entire revenue lifecycle. From incentivizing content downloads and enhancing digital ad conversions to nurturing post-sale engagement, physical touchpoints are breaking through digital friction. Kris also emphasizes the importance of building community-driven growth through "Sendfluencers" and advisor networks, proving that in an era of infinite digital noise, companies that invest in meaningful, multi-channel connections will ultimately win.

Discussed in this episode

• How the rise of automated email sequences inspired the need for physical, tangible touchpoints in outbound sales.
• The manual origins of Sendoso involving marketing swag closets and Friday afternoon packing parties.
• Why sending cheap, generic items damages your brand and wastes the unique potential of the gifting channel.
• Leveraging AI to automate prospect research so reps can focus entirely on personalization and messaging.
• The importance of aligning a gift with the right timing, relevant messaging, and the correct buying committee members.
• Building community-driven growth through Sendfluencers, power users, alumni, and advisor networks.
• How executive leadership traits must evolve as a startup scales from Series A to Series D.
• The future of GTM gifting involving intent-driven automation, content marketing integration, and post-sale engagement.

Episode highlights

1. 0:00 — Welcome and Kris Rudeegraap introduction
2. 1:30 — The origin story of Sendoso
3. 3:50 — Meaningful gifting vs. wasteful swag
4. 6:15 — Using AI to automate prospect research
5. 9:00 — Ignoring traditional startup growth advice
6. 11:45 — The ROI of creative event gifting
7. 14:20 — How to properly prospect a CEO
8. 16:10 — Building the Sendfluencer community program
9. 18:40 — Evolving leadership through funding stages
10. 21:15 — Logistics as a competitive advantage
11. 23:50 — The future of automated intent gifting
12. 25:30 — Rapid fire questions and wrap-up

Key takeaways

• Stop sending generic swag; personalize gifts to show you actually listen.
• Use AI for prospect research to save time for human-centric messaging.
• Gifting creates a cost barrier, protecting the channel from email-like spam.
• Openly assess leadership fit as a company scales through its funding stages.
• Integrate gifting with intent data to automate perfectly timed physical touchpoints.

Transcript

it's a sad thing when people waste their time and send out crap. And I think it's just the same as like people send out bad emails. It's just there's people that just don't do put in the work. Welcome back to another episode of the Revenue Reimagined podcast.

Today is a very special day for us. As all of you know, this show is powered by Sendoso. It has taken us way too long, but we actually have with us today Chris Rudy Grapp, who is the co-founder and CEO of none other than Sendoso. Chris has more than a decade of go-to market experience and has spent time at Talkdesk, Yapstone, and Bacora, where he discovered that creating meaningful engagements through direct mail and gifting is actually go figure an effective way to drive pipeline and increase sales when you do it correctly, which is what helped inspire the idea for none other than Sendoso.

Chris, thanks for joining the show, man. Thank you for having me, Adam and Dale. Appreciate it. Thanks for joining.

And it's funny, I um, I used to partner with uh Talkdesk at a past life. So super interested. Um, one of the things we like to talk a lot about when we when we talk to founders of companies is kind of that evolution of idea. Adam alluded to it in the in the introduction, but tell us a little bit about like why start Sendoso, what the evolution is of it and kind of where you guys are now.

Yeah, so uh I spent about a decade in software sales prior to starting the company. And so I really saw a lot of the evolution of outbound prospecting and, you know, I was a full cycle AE, I was setting my own meetings. And so I was in the trenches. I I remember when uh I think ToutApp and Yesware first came out and they were like cool shiny objects to like sequence emails, which was like game changer, you know, about a decade ago or so.

Um, and I saw those tools quickly get um, you know, copycatted and there was dozens of clones. And then the, you know, outreach and sales off emerged as kind of probably the leading ones in the space. And and it was early for me to see, but I said, hey, there there's going to be just an an onslaught of email, a gazillion ways to send a gazillion emails. What else can you do to stand out or to break through that noise?

And so I was manually doing a lot of handwritten notes. I'd be on a call and hear a dog bark and send a dog toy after from Amazon or I'd go on our marketing swag closet and like steal swag from marketing and pack it up in boxes or uh I think one of the final straws for the idea was marketing at when I was at Talkdesk was like, all right, you have these headphones, you're going to pack them up in boxes, write notes. They had the sales team on Friday, spend like four hours in the afternoon in like a little mini like, you know, sweatshop factory, you know, putting all these together. But it worked so well.

We're like, why not? But, you know, I was kind of like, isn't there a better way? Can't this be automated? Can't this be integrated?

Can't this scale? Um, and that was kind of the early idea for Sendoso, which is just really automating and scaling and and and making it easier to just click and send this stuff. You know, it's it's funny that you talk about going into the closet, boxing the swag. So, Chris, I I don't know if you remember, but I I used to lead sales for a competitor, um, in this space, and the whole value prop was like, everything you're talking about.

Although we didn't do a great job of it, but like, go having your revenue producing team going to some closet to take out whatever they want, box it up, and then probably have to go to some FedEx office and send it, isn't effective. Nor is sending everyone the same pair of headphones, right? Hence where something like Sendoso comes in. I I've been a fan for a long time, um, and I think that meaningful gifting is important.

Yes. But I feel like a lot of people get it wrong, right? Like, I still get, you know, I get probably 50 to 100 cold emails every couple days, LinkedIn, and every once in a while, someone sends a gift, and it's usually some crappy chachki that shows up at my door, that I have no desire to have, that typically goes right in the trash. How do we change that mindset other than like, use Sendoso of like, really bringing meaningful gifting?

Like, what is meaningful gifting, relevant gifting, and how do we get people to embrace it? Yeah, I know, it's a sad thing when people waste their time and send out crap. And I think it's just the same as like people send out bad emails. It's just there's people that just don't do put in the work to personalize and and it goes for direct mail and gifting too.

But in our eyes, there's really this kind of uh a couple different things you can look for. It's really like what's the right time to send the gift, which matters, what's the right before and after you send the gift, whether you set the stage with an email or you cold call afterwards or more of a warm call. What the what's the gift note with that message? What's the gift itself?

Um, what's the the the timing and who else is receiving it on the buying committee? So there's, you know, five or six different ways that you can personalize what you're sending to make it more impactful and make it more relevant to solving the buyer's problems. Um, or if they're down in the funnel, like if it's a shown up for a demo, or you're thinking them for coming by your conference, trade show booth, or they just became a customer, they made a referral. There's lots of different ways on the buying journey that you can connect the message and the gift, um, and uh drive better conversion and outcome.

Yeah, it's and it was it was so funny right when you were talking about the origin and you talked about ToutApp and it brought me back like to meeting TK like in New York and he was like packaging like he was like wearing his t-shirts and like uh I close deals t-shirts. I don't know if you remember those. Those were like vintage I I still have one. It's like super vintage TK.

And um I've talked to him a couple times but the interesting part was like those are really times where people were thinking and not just automating. I mean, people too many people now are like automating things and not getting enough into the like personalization at scale enabling. And so I remember I ended up um working at Oracle as a as a um rep and I would do the same thing. I would like order a bunch of golf balls or order a bunch of stuff and like start packaging it up and and they're like thinking about it in a different way.

As we're going through all of this noise, um, how how can people leverage something like Sendoso? Because I think the challenge I've seen sometimes and I think Sendoso setting up is is doing us really well is how can we utilize AI to try to help them like minimize the time. Like we do a lot of research for prospecting, for whatever, but how can Sendoso help on the AI side to help people create these gifts, personalize? It's a great question and something that we've been really touting a lot lately is uh how our AI can help solve some of the um manual effort that goes into researching somebody's uh, you know, uh past uh LinkedIn posts and we can use AI for that or picking uh out a gift based on somebody's uh, you know, conversations uh that they've had or picking out a gift based on someone's location or title or persona.

So a lot of those things we can automate with AI so that you're spending less time uh looking through uh all these old notes or or research and and bringing AI to do that. And I think that's a huge way to help reduce the time. I think the other thing is is, you know, with with gifting, there's an effort of sourcing, procurement, shipping. And tactically, we take all that time away so that you can spend a a minute longer thinking about what's that right, you know, crafted note or or we'll use AI to craft the note for you, but you use an extra couple minutes to like tweak it a little bit.

And so I think uh we can eliminate some of the manual monotonous tasks that used to you used to have to do like we talked about and automate those so that you can spend more time on the actual personalization of things. Yeah. I I was just using some of the uh the AI stuff that you guys have and it it's super cool because it will start like identifying because I think sometimes we get stuck in our heads, what should we be personalizing? And then you go down a rabbit hole.

Like every sales person has ADD and like they go down this rabbit hole and then the gifting experience ends up taking like two hours, where it should just take like 15 minutes, like find something, get it going. Exactly. And that's where like our smart send feature comes in where it'll plug in an email address or somebody's uh information and it will go, we'll suggest things as well, um, which is really awesome. It it's it's kind of like prospecting, right?

Spend the time on sending the email, making the calls, doing the actual revenue producing things, not the research, go figure. Exactly. And the other thing too with gifting is that there is an inherent cost to it, so it does preserve the channel a bit more. Unlike email, where it's $0 to send another email ultimately, you know, you're spending money, so you you're getting less of it by nature.

So you can stand out more because if you actually put in the time and be thoughtful, uh you can, you know, you can probably count on a hand how many gifts you get a day compared to the number of emails you get a day. So. I mean, you should see the crap Dale sends me. Like, use Sendoso and send me some relevant stuff, um, and and I might open the gifts.

Chris, let me let me ask you a question. Um, so you, you know, Sendoso has morphed a lot over the past several years, um, grew up as, you know, the whole startup ecosystem was arguably changing from this grow-at-all-costs mentality to scalable, sustainable growth. As you were building Sendoso, like, there had to be a ton of like assumptions that either advisors or investors gave you of like, man, best practice, you got to do this, or don't you dare do that. Like, what's the one that comes to mind that you said, yeah, f that, I'm not taking that advice.

I'm going to do what I want to do, and it actually resulted in some like tangible wins. Yeah, I mean, I think recently we've and I think we're we're hearing this more frequently, but we were pretty early on from switching to the model of the kind of the predictable revenue you need to gazillion SDRs to make uh pipeline and outbound work to how do you automate that with more tools, especially AI tools. So we've been on that for, you know, a couple years now and and touting that horn and building out our, you know, data sets so that it's easier to do these AI outbound automations. So I think that's something that, you know, we had to take it a bit of a twist from the spreadsheet kind of math that you you'd thought about in, you know, yesteryear to say, actually, let's kill that spreadsheet, let's invent a new spreadsheet.

So I think outbounding is an example of that. Um, probably one of the other early early ones for us was events too. I think events for us was an early way for us to seem a bit larger than we were. We'd sponsor a ton of events when we were kind of series A stage.

And sometimes events, you have a kind of a squint your eye to see the ROI and a lot of times in those early days your VCs and your board or even your fellow colleagues are like, uh, we're not seeing the ROI on these events. But we saw the kind of the uh inbound coming in, um not attributed to the event, but we said, hey, we're seeing lots more inbound, um as well as in the early days, we saw a lot of outbound that turned to inbound, even though it wasn't attributed that way. And so I think some of those channels that, you know, are a little bit harder to attribute, but uh, you know, I was in my gut said, hey, we need to do more of these. And they're not immediate wins either, right?

I mean, that's the other, that's the other challenge. We were just talking with the founder today and basically said, look at, the event is going to be good from a lead gen perspective. Attribution is always a tricky thing that we need to figure out. But also like it's not like you're going to get leads next month.

Like it could like evolve over time. And by the way, if you're using the event strategy, couple that with a gifting strategy and it's like amazing, right? Um, and I'll I'll I'll tell a quick gifting story that I actually did that actually led to something. Um, I did an I did a gifting, um, with a a Florida Blue and we did a gift off to like their, um, to like, not just like, right below the CEO, like a chief, uh information officer.

And, um, did a big uh gift a gift to them that was super relevant and got a meeting immediately. And I think that process, that mind shift is something to get away from all this noise that we're that we're leveraging today. One of my favorite event to gift stories was a bunch of years ago, we were at an event and someone uh stopped by our booth, um he was like a VP, he was on crutches. And he mentioned that he had broken his ribs uh skiing.

And so we quickly uh gifted him at by the time he got home some Kansas City baby back ribs. And uh had a funny quirky note to it, uh talked about his ribs. And it was it was not an expensive gift. It wasn't like the most amazing thing we could have ever gotten him.

But it was more the thoughtfulness, the creativeness, the kind of human-to-human nature of like, hey, this person actually listened, they followed up. It was different than just a generic, you know, email. And so I think that's uh one way. But that but that's the thing though.

One to buy is they want sellers that are, you know, connecting. So. 100%. Like everyone thinks like, oh, you know, it has to be this big, elaborate, expensive gift, or they go the exact opposite of I'm going to send you a a paperweight for your desk.

And it it's neither. It it's thoughtful, it's relevant, and show that you listen and care. And while that sometimes could be as simple as, you know, seeing that I'm a huge 49ers fan, and you could get that from my LinkedIn, other times you have to go a little deeper and actually listen to those conversations. I I love that, whether it's, you know, barbecue, or bourbon, or, you know, something for Dale's boat, whatever it happens to be, that shows that you know someone.

That's what brings a gifting strategy to life versus, especially selling to sales and marketing leaders, knowing that, oh, I hit a certain stage in Salesforce, and this was auto sent out. Um. Exactly. Yeah, I think gifting can be just like a means of communication at times.

It's a personalized way to just say, hey, I I want to chat, or hey, thank you, or hey, I want to grab your attention. And, you know, the gift itself can be really relevant, but not really expensive. People buy from people. That's why companies who invest in meaningful connections win.

The best part, gifting doesn't have to be expensive to drive results, just thoughtful. Sendoso's intelligent gifting platform is designed to boost personalized engagement throughout the entire sales process. Trust me, I led sales for a Sendoso competitor, and I could tell you, no one does gifting better than Sendoso. If you're looking for a proven way to win and retain more customers, visit sendoso.

com. Yeah. So I I love that. I I I I want to go somewhere.

So, you are the CEO of a gifting company. You as the CEO get prospected a shit ton from people to buy their technologies, or use their services, or whatever. How how how does someone gift to you appropriately? And has anyone done it that's made you say like, wow, this is effing great.

I would love I would love to hear that story because I would imagine you're very difficult to gift for. Yeah. So, I would say I am so surprised by how many people don't gift to me. Um, like it is mind-boggling how many emails I get or, you know, just generic LinkedIn messages that are not gifting.

Um, especially knowing that we have thousands of customers that sell to me too. And all those folks could easily gift and I'm like failed opportunity, uh especially when you're a customer of ours. But, um, you know, again, it goes back to listening. I think uh, it was I think I did a podcast maybe six months ago and dropped that I liked uh Casamigos tequila.

And somebody had a bottle show up like a a week after it was pub the the podcast went live. And I think it was a good a great way of saying, hey, they were listening. And I think it was interesting uh that they, you know, paid attention to the podcast, so they put in their put in the time. Um, and it, you know, caught my attention.

I'm like, yes, of course, I'd love to this love to follow up. And like, I'm a sucker for taking meetings. So, I love hearing about new tech, uh especially if I'm gifted to. I'm like, I have to you're right.

You're speaking my language now. Yeah, exactly. So, uh Well, especially if they're a customer of yours, that then if they leverage Sendoso to send you a gift, like, that's like the trifecta. I know, exactly.

I I it blows my mind that if someone's a customer of Sendoso trying to get you to purchase their tech that common sense isn't like, hmm, let me use his tool to gift him. Like, how do you not do that? Wow. You know, um and I also want to give a shout out to you guys because I think something else that you guys are doing ahead of a lot of the market is, um, nearbound, not I wouldn't necessarily say influencer, but like, people that can help leverage networks to you guys.

Um, Yeah, I kinda think about it more of like our community uh strategy. There's a lot of different terms flying around or what you're calling it, but, you know, I think we've done a great job of, you know, there's kinda uh four different ways that I look at this um and that we're strategic around it. Um one that uh the newest one is kinda our Sendfluencer program, where we're reaching out to other B2B influencers in the space and getting them excited and uh incentivized to kind of talk about Sendoso. And so that's building a community of folks that um are are talking us up, are mentioning, are are putting it in their LinkedIn profile.

Um, we then have our Super Sender community, um and these this is a more of a user group, uh that uh we uh, you know, share insights with and those folks are more uh kind of your your typical user community. We then I really embrace our kind of alumni community too and and post employees that have worked here and engage that folks. And then I've got a, you know, 100 plus advisors too that I've built over the course of the last, you know, five, six years. And that's another community I use uh just for awareness, for advice, but also, you know, again, if they're at a conference or they're talking up, you know, gifting, they're going to mention us.

And so it's all about just building an army and a community of folks that can continue to spread the word, um which I think is critical uh when it's really hard to get your word out there. Yeah. Yeah, we're big Katie, we're big Katie fans. Katie's amazing.

She's done she's done a great job. She's done an amazing job. I I may or may not have sent her a screenshot of us chatting it up right now. One of the questions that we get a lot as well is how your leadership changes.

So, you were an enterprise sales wrap and then you like are starting to, you know, you start up a company, you evolve, and you've been, you know, growing this company for a while over through different um iterations. How has your leadership evolved over that time? Yeah, so I think, you know, there's a couple different ways that I look at it. One is the types of leaders that you look to collaborate with at different stages.

I think the type of person, uh, you know, C-level or VP that thrives maybe in a seed or A-stage environment can be different from somebody in a B and C-stage. And it's uh important to have those heart-to-heart conversations with those executives, either challenging them to say, are you ready for the next stage? Do you want the next stage? Are you the right fit for the next stage?

And being open to it too. So there's no, you know, blindside and just transparency. So I think that's critical cuz some people some leaders like certain stages more than others. Or some people are like, hey, I I want to take a shot on this next stage, let me do it.

Um, Yeah. You know. So I think that's important in terms of leadership um and leading um by, you know, having transparent conversations with your leaders. It it it's so interesting to me because a lot of folks don't talk about this enough.

uh a leader who thrives in Series A, Yeah. might want to go to Series C. They might not. Yeah.

Conversely, they might be great in Series C and they might not, and having those conversations and understanding not just what you're good at, but where you want to go. I think a lot of leaders are way too quick to do the opposite of it's either, I'm absolutely going to take you with me because you're my guy and you started this, or flip-flop, dude, I can't take you with me. You're a Series A guy, you're not a Series C guy. Have that conversation.

Get to know people. Understand their skill set, um, and work to develop people. So, I I love that you said that. I don't think people do that enough.

Um, and I think some people are just builders, right? And some people aren't. Exactly. Yeah, and I'm seeing some of those builders, like some of those more early stage A and B folks, uh play a bigger role in this like return to efficiency, uh uh kind of what the series maybe C and D folks, uh even B C D, uh were kind of notorious over the last, uh well, 20, 21, 22 to kind of growth at all costs.

But you almost needed that mindset of like a Series A leader to come in and kind of uh, you know, re-established the more uh, kind of uh automated or hacky or unique creative strategies. And then I think AI is putting a new spin on it too because it's, you know, it's reinventing the game. And if you're a later stage growth leader in, you know, Series D E later, you probably have this playbook that you've deployed multiple times over the last couple decades. And that playbook's kind of blown up.

And it's, you know, it's been reinvented, um, or reimagined. Um, and Yeah. So that's where I think it's interesting to maybe take a different look if you're uh, you know, Series D company recruiting a new CRO. Maybe a uh, you know, a more uh, you know, automation focused, AI focused, you know, scrappier Series A leader could do the job better.

all of us builders are used to building with no money. Um it's very different when you have D-level money and you could spend at all costs. Where now it's like, you might have the money, but the goal isn't to go spend all the money. Um great, great, great call out.

Chris, when you look back, when you look at the journey of Sendoso from start to now, where the product has morphed to, um, the acquisitions or partnerships that have been made, what's like one really critical decision that you've made? Kind of like what you I would say is like a turning point of the company that really determined the trajectory of the success that is Sendoso today? Yeah, great question. I'd say uh, one of the early ones I think for us was probably about a year in, we uh moved from kind of an outsourced 3PL warehouse uh provider that was not really ready to scale up the scale we needed to bringing it all in house and then scaling it with internal experts and leaders and uh leadership that really understood uh our model and hiring some of the smartest executives from Amazon and and other companies and building out logistics as a competitive advantage.

Um and it's, you know, it's easier said than done when you click a button and then the the box magically appears uh at the prospects or customers door. But for a lot of that, there's a lot of software we built, a lot of logistics processes we've built behind the scenes making that magical experience so quick and seamless. And so I think that was a pivotal move for us and one that was expensive and a lot of effort and a lot of learnings, but one that's really paid off as we can now almost infinitely scale and have the leadership and expertise uh to, you know, uh, you know, really future-proof ourself. I I find it fascinating and not not to cut Dale off, but like when you look at Sendoso, Yeah, I always cut Dale off.

I I do. The the initial thought is like, oh, like you guys are a cool software and gifting company, right? Like you're you're you're selling SAS, but there's a whole logistics arm. And like to anyone listening who has never sold something that, forget the software component, is a physical product that you have to get from point A to point B and PS get a logo on it.

Yeah. It ain't easy. Um so like you're you're not a typical software CEO. Like you're a software CEO, you're a logistics CEO.

There's so many pieces of the business that I don't think people realize have to come together to your point, that you click that button and that box shows up. It it's not software where you click a button and it just turns on. Exactly. And and then uh on top of all that, now we're a data company because we've amassed, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars spent on our platform, tens of millions of senders and gifts going out.

And so now we we're layering all that data into our recommendation engine for what's the right thing to send at the right time to the right person with the right message, um and so now we have to be a kind of a data company on top of it all too. So it's uh it's fascinating. That's super cool. So that that that's actually a great uh segue into the next thought I was having is like, where do you see gifting, Sendoso, in the next three to five years?

Like, where's this where's this all going? Um, Yeah. What's the what's the glimpse into the future? So, I'd say uh some of my predictions revolve around, I think there's going to be further automations.

You know, we still see a lot of CSV uploads for bulk sends, um or we still see a lot of uh area for improvement in the sales integrated process where instead of just a one-off send, you use intent data to trigger it and it's more automated where you're kind of looking at it before it's going out or you're just saying, hey, I'm going to set these parameters and kind of craft my gifting strategy, but when the intent signals and the contact data and everything align, it's just going to go. Um, kind of more of like marketing automation esque. So I think that's going to be a big trend. Um, obviously data and AI, we're just scratching the surface on all the really interesting suggestion engines and and feedback loops we can build into our product, which I'm really excited about.

Um, I think gifting also take uh place in other parts of your marketing or sales channel uh strategy. Like we're seeing some of our best customers put a gift incentive in an in a LinkedIn ad, um and drive better conversions or uh a after someone downloads content, a surprise gift uh sent to them to say, enjoy, you know, this uh coffee e-gift on me while you read this content. And some of these experiences are integrating gifting into content marketing, integrating into digital advertising, integrating it into uh, you know, event marketing in a more automated uh programmatic way. And I think that's super fascinating because if you can, you know, get one, two, five, 10% conversions on some of your other channels, it's, you know, a big multiplier.

Or maybe even post sale. Like, Oh yeah, post sale. It's huge. Yeah.

everyone's thinking about post sale. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny to see how it's evolved, right?

Because gifting used to be so prospect heavy and like now it's there's so many different ways you could use it to your point. Dale, I love how you talk about post sale and, you know, even for engagement, we use it in all of our newsletters. Um, you know, to to drive engagement. And I think that, you know, when you look at it across the entire go-to market motion is when you're really going to see gifting make a difference.

Um, Chris, as we wrap up, we'd love to uh jump into some rapid fire. Uh here here's the rules. 10 10 words or less. Otherwise, Dale has a gong that magically comes out through uh through the screen here.

Um, and we'll try to have a little bit of fun. Okay. I'm going to go off script, Dale. Chris, what's the worst gift you've ever received?

Worst gift? Um, I think a wrong sized t-shirt. That was pretty bad. Yeah.

Yeah. Um, what's the first app you check when you wake up in the morning? Uh, I will check my Google mail. Early bird or night owl?

Both. Oh. Yeah. Burn and Kims on board.

Follow up. How many how many hours of sleep do you get a night? Uh, well, I will I I'd prefer about six hours. Okay.

Um, I do have a four-month old. So now like a good four hours is even a win. Yeah. Yeah.

True true true story. If you weren't in tech, what profession would you be in? Uh, maybe like a professional golfer. Even though I'm not great at golf, it sounds just like fun.

Nice. What's uh what's one word to describe your startup journey so far? Uh fun. Love that.

Okay, since you had the worst gift, what was the best gift you received? Um, I received a uh an Oculus uh way back when I wanted one. Someone I had mentioned it and someone sent me one. So that was like a killer gift.

I bet they got a meeting. Oh yeah. That that's yeah, that that's definitely a meeting getter. Uh that's a great gift.

Chris, what's your favorite guilty pleasure snack? Uh, white cheddar popcorn. Nice. Last one.

Dream vacation destination. Uh, maybe a beer garden in Germany. Nice. They're in October Fest.

Of course, right? Yeah. Awesome. Oh, you're on mute.

This is awesome. He's actually hit mute on the podcast. This could be the best day of my life. Wow.

As I was saying, we are so grateful for you joining us. Um if folks have not checked out Sendoso yet, you have to go check out Sendoso. But to do that, send me or Dale a direct DM. We will make a direct introduction for you to someone who could get you exactly what you need at the Sendoso team.

There is no other way to gift. Chris, where can people find you um on LinkedIn if they want to reach out directly? Not to say what's Sendoso, to actually connect. Yeah, uh follow me on LinkedIn, add me or even email me Chris@sendoso.

com. Awesome. Chris, thanks for joining, man. We appreciate it.

Yeah, thanks. Thank you, sir. Appreciate you. See you guys.