FORGET "Growth at ALL Costs" ft. Christian Kletzl | Revenue Reimagined Ep. 023

Christian Kletzl

Christian Kletzl, CEO and Co-founder of UserGems, shares his journey from a struggling B2C startup to a B2B powerhouse by identifying a unique signal: tracking customer job changes. He discusses how past struggles with fundraising ingrained a culture of extreme efficiency and sustainable growth, allowing UserGems to weather tough economic climates without resorting to a toxic "growth at all costs" mentality. Kletzl also breaks down the shift in buyer psychology from FOMO to FOMU (Fear Of Messing Up), explaining why messaging must adapt to emphasize pipeline that actually converts rather than just quick pipeline generation. Ultimately, the future of outbound sales requires thoughtful, signal-based outreach where every single touchpoint justifies its existence.

Discussed in this episode

How UserGems pivoted from a candidate-sharing network to tracking customer job changes for sales pipelines.
Why struggling to fundraise early on ingrained a survival DNA that prevented toxic overhiring.
The psychological shift in B2B buyers from FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out) to FOMU (Fear Of Messing Up).
Adapting sales messaging to focus on pipeline conversion instead of just quick pipeline generation.
Forecasting conservatively by planning for worst-case revenue scenarios while strictly controlling cash burn.
Maintaining team morale and trust by being transparent about economic struggles and setting realistic workload expectations.
Using revenue per employee as a core metric to balance extreme efficiency with team performance.
The necessity of moving away from high-volume, generic cold emails to signal-based, highly targeted outreach.

Episode highlights

0:00 — Welcome and Christian Kletzl intro
2:00 — UserGems 10-year origin story
4:30 — Pivoting to tracking job changes
7:15 — Escaping the growth at all costs trap
10:00 — Shifting from FOMO to FOMU
13:20 — Forecasting for the worst case
16:45 — Maintaining team trust in hard times
20:30 — Why revenue per employee matters
24:15 — From engineer to sales leader
28:00 — Finding product-market fit
31:40 — The future of outbound selling
34:00 — Rapid fire questions

Key takeaways

Track champion job changes natively
Shift messaging to address FOMU
Forecast for worst-case scenarios
Optimize revenue per employee metrics
Stop high-volume generic email blasts

Transcript

And so from a sales perspective, we changed how we communicate our value so that we can help you in this like how you can sell because there's less promo, like less fear of messing up if someone has already bought your product. Welcome back to another episode of the revenue reimagined podcast. We are so lucky uh to have with us today a super special guest. We have Christian Cletzel with us.

He is the CEO and co-founder um of a company that I know Dale and I have both admired uh for a long time, but I would venture to say most of our listeners have as well and that is user gems. Christian, thanks for joining us. Hey Adam, what a great introduction. Thank you so much.

Great to be here. My my job's over. Have a good show, guys. The radio the radio in Adam always comes out in the introductions.

So It does. Awesome. Um, so what we like to talk to about founders and I don't think a lot of good I don't think founders do this really well is tell their origin story. Like, tell us a little bit about the user gems origin story, why you guys started?

Like you must have had something in your head, like we have to change something. Um, I always say like, how much time do you have? Because it also actually took a while, and I think that's one of the things that I always a little bit overlooked like, some like, user terms is now well known, but actually that we started working on something, like 10 years ago is something that's easily overlooked. And I'm so curious about like that, that in that infancy, like when you guys are starting and having that idea, because it's probably evolved over time.

Oh, absolutely. Um, so we, we we started out working on something, and it was always like a data product. Like back then the very first thing was actually, we were analyzing what you purchased online via the email receipts and compared it to like, we we scraped the web to figure out how much is this worth. So we helped you resell products.

That was the very first product. It was very unrelated to what we're doing today, so I'll I'll I'll skip a little bit but the interesting thing is it has always been like kind of like private data, like what you purchased compared to public data, what it what it's worth. Sure. Um, um, we pivoted there but we so we had a product, we had a company, that was called Smart Hires.

It was a candidate sharing network. So it was like uh companies with the same investors could say, hey, I I had this really great candidate, but they're not a good fit because I'm looking for more junior, senior, different uh different location, etcetera, so you could share. And one of our customers there changed their job. And we noticed that um we tracked them down and turned them into a customer again.

And we thought, hey, this is this was really easy. We should do this for all of our customers. So how long ago was that? So that was so Smart Hires was about 2015.

Um so uh so we got customers there. But this whole, this the that this actually happened. This was, I think, 2018, I think. And and I think this was also, like for B2B, you always need to know like, how long am I sticking with something, right?

Like you you're not immediately getting, right. But in this case, so we because of this hiring product, we had already professional information, like we were already able to get professional information about candidates, so we could take this technology and use it for what if we can track customers for changes. So we basically we used our product and could change this into this. Love that.

And it was it was so interesting how quickly the the people we talked to, we had this product, the Smart Hire thing, we talked about this new thing that we developed, they were so much more interested in that than the other product that we had. So we very quickly knew, okay, we need to fully focus on that. And then like fully focused, I think first customer was 2019. Wow.

Cool story. So, user gems has been around for a while, right? Like you said, you know, you look at the journey from 15 to the first customer to 19. We're now in 23, almost 24.

The entire tech landscape has changed over that time. Um and specifically what I'm talking about right now isn't necessarily like the advent of AI and everything, but you've gone through this like growth at all costs mentality to sustainability and scaling properly and it's funny, the one question we ask pre-show because everyone knows we don't script these is like what's something that's near and dear to your heart. And when I saw this answer, it was near and dear to my heart because it's something that Dale and I are super passionate about. Talk to me a little bit about how user gems has adapted and isn't doing this kind of growth at all costs and is really focused on true sustainable growth because I think a lot of founders that listen struggle with how to grow in a sustainable manner versus just go hire 25 AEs and they'll solve your problem.

Oh my god. Oh my god. Yeah. I think that it's kind of like the the benefit that we had of, let's call it, not being successful at the beginning with the other startups.

So we went, so the the original, the original product, this B2C solution, this is actually one we went through Y Combinator with. So kind of like, okay, decently interesting, but we never managed to really raise uh much funding. And because of this, we were always forced to be like super creative, very efficient in how we do our sales process. Like, if you go to a conference, how can you like just buy one ticket and have the maximum impact?

So always being extremely cautious and plus it was really hard to raise money. Like we we actually like saw the reality of the fundraising, which which showed us it's basically impossible to fund raise. Like that, and then 2019 came and it turned out that it looked like fundraising is really easy, but we still had this memory of the real times where fundraising is actually difficult. So we always thought, I do not like what if times change and fundraising gets difficult again?

I don't want to be in a position where I have to fund raise in an environment where it's really hard, which is the regular environment. So I feel like this DNA of suffering, like I talk, Airbnb talks about the thousand days of pain. I talk about the 1500 days of pain. And I think it prepared us well for All right, imagine actually an environment where you don't have any funding and how would you uh act in that environment?

And it's so, so different. So, evolve on that a little bit. So, now you're we're in this environment, like there's a lot of people contracting. Sales cycles are like expanding.

Average deal sizes are going down. So, what are you guys doing at User Gems to like try to shift the field? So, do you mean how would we do internally for us to make sure we're still efficient? Yeah, like how how are we still like closing deals on time?

You're getting a decent forecast because I think a lot of founders and heads of sales and different people are are struggling with the forecasting pieces. And so I'm just curious how you guys are kind of managing that that challenge. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

I think there's there's two very big and important things here. Like the first one is we had to adapt even our messaging to this environment. Right? Like before, as you say, this was like the the FOMO environment where it's like, I need to buy every tool, the fear of missing out.

And now it's more a FOMU, like the fear of messing up. So I don't wanna I don't wanna like it's kind of like this whole nobody ever got fired for buying IBM came back where I can get fired. Money is so tight. If I buy a product that's not being used, that's not valuable, then that is really bad for my reputation.

And so from a sales perspective, we changed how we communicate our value so that we can help you in this, like how you can sell. Because there's less FOMU, like less fear of messing up, if someone has already bought your product. So we managed to get from a messaging of here's how you get pipeline quickly to here's how you can get pipeline that actually converts. So I think that was the biggest piece like in every like the the biggest one is like we need to adapt to what do buyers care about?

So we changed our messaging. But then obviously, you also need to adapt your own organization. Like how do I forecast? And um how do I think strategically about the future?

And what I found really, really helpful there is um our investor Craft, very early on communicated ultimately, there are two things. There is um when you do your forecast, you know how much money you have and how much money you're going to spend. What you can't predict as well is how much money you're going to make. Right.

And so if there is if if one is totally in your control and the other one isn't, then be as um as pessimistic as possible in that forecast. And so our goal is always, what if the worst case scenario happens, how can user terms like still grow or like be efficient. And then everything else is like this positive surprise in the month or the quarter. I like that.

So I I love that and I think that, you know, when you look at, you know, things like forecasting and worst case scenario, a lot of founders don't look at it that way, right? Like I've I've been in the boardroom with CEOs who are giving the board such BS about numbers that are going to close and it's like and I I literally Christian had a founder tell me like, well, we'll just deal with that next quarter when the deals don't close. Like that's not a way you want to approach your board, my friends. Like that that's not a good solution.

You want to make your board allies, not enemies. Um and have your board work for you. But when you look at especially now, sustainability is key, right? But you still you still have to scale.

Yeah. So when you're looking at balancing the need to like scale and scale rapidly to what VCs want, but also sustainability and being realistic. How do you tow that line and walk that tightrope? Yeah.

Uh If you know, if you know an answer there, tell me as well. But I think so here's here's how we approach this. Um I I told everyone in the company that like life right now is more difficult than let's say a year ago or two years ago. And this applies to everyone, right?

Uh for the marketing manager, it's harder to hit their goals. Like you need to do more with less, like this whole statement. Uh customer success, every every uh renewal is really a negotiation, selling is harder. So really life is harder for everyone.

But um what we've always done as an organization is that we don't like we like there was this in sales, you you throw bodies at the problem. Like I always hated that. But rather what I did, I gave the promise of um like life is hard, you will do more than you did last year, and we're going to stretch your position. But on the other hand, it also means that I promise you that um that this means like we need we need you in that role, like we need you to perform in that role.

And it worked really well, just making sure that everyone knows basically the import their importance in the organization, even though if it means there there will be a short period of time where they will be stretched. And I think right now we're in that period, and I hope that's going to be over soon or like it gets easier next year. But I think this year's just a little bit where everyone needs to stretch a little bit. And and I think it you said something really interesting because if you tell them the why, they're much better than if you just tell them like we have to double your workload or, you know, you have to take on this new project.

And if you say, we're we're asking you to do this because of X, and hopefully it's only for a wide time, and you're you're like, they trust that you're going to go through that process with them, they're much more willing to give that time and effort. Yeah, yeah, and I think really the big thing is like acknowledging it that this is the case because it totally is the case. And I see I see other people work really, really hard and I see how much work there is right now. But on the other hand, it also means that we're all working on making user terms a really good company, and we're still growing really well in this environment, which which means that we're achieving the goals and that then motivates people.

And that also then allows us to hire more people and make sure that we divvy up the workload. So I'm going to go a little bit into that same mode because I one of the things that you were talking about, a lot of people that are in this environment right now, I'm speaking mostly sales, marketing, revenue focused type people, are having a hard time trusting companies because even if they were performing well, like big cuts across Microsoft, like all the big companies. How do you earn the trust when you're talking to top talent to come to User Gems? Mhm.

Um, in the I I think there're three things here that that I think are really important. Um, the first one is that right now when I do interviews, I actually tell them that it's a it's a uh a stressful time, like people working a lot. And be prepared that this is going to be the case for the next six months. But at the very same time, I also want to highlight that people are still happy at the company.

So for example, I always tell them um look at our glass door reviews. They are great. As well as reach out to anyone in the organization. Like I'm like for for example, in the very last stage, I can tell them, I'm happy to make the introduction, but you can actually reach out to anyone in the organization to see how it really is.

And I think it's it's it's the mixture of telling them that it's going to be tough, but also they for us, like I I really think our our employees are still happy at like are happy at the organization. But I think there's one more, um that I think is is really valuable is, um, there's this new metric that that's really important. It's revenue per employee. And it's really like it's one that we have always optimized, like um we we looked at comparables of companies our size and I think we're in the like top 10% of this.

And it it tells the story in both directions. It tells, okay, like our people are very efficient, they probably work a good amount. But on the other hand, also it means that we really need everyone in their seat because like you are really generating a lot of revenue for us. So we are not over hiring, we've never over hired based on our DNA, plus we're really efficient with everyone.

And I think the combination of this story works well for us. Ever feel like keeping your CRM updated with call notes is a nightmare? You're not alone. Most sales leaders would rate their CRM hygiene a four out of 10.

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attention.tech. I think it's interesting, there's not um excuse me, there's not a lot of people who could say we've never over hired. Um most founders that you speak with I think would look back and be like, yeah, we really did over hire.

Um so it it's great to hear that you have always taken that sustainable approach. Christian, when you look at where you've gone as a founder. So a lot of our listeners are, you know, first-time founders trying to kind of figure out their leadership style, how to adapt, how to build a team, um how to lead for the first time, right? And that that that's hard.

Like, especially like a technical founder maybe who's not, you know, hasn't been in sales and hasn't really had to have as much of those interpersonal um skills. Talk to us a little bit about how your leadership style has evolved from, you know, kind of the start of user gems to to now. Yeah. Um it's also interesting like just based on my background because I'm actually an engineer by trade.

So I I don't know the the history of user terms is also really interesting. My co-founder is my identical twin brother. Oh, oh wow. Cool.

And which means we have the same skills, right? We have the same this this could be interesting. It's also really interesting because I actually was the one that studied engineering. He studied business and he now leads the engineering team.

I lead the business team. Um but it also means like I came from a background where I didn't know how to do sales. And I remember the I don't know, the first hundreds of calls, how nervous I was before that call. But I think for the ones for the like engineers that that now need to do the sales roles, I think the the most important thing is, it's really a skill that can be trained.

Like I'm I'm now there's no hesitation. I'm very comfortable doing these calls, and I can tell you that five years ago that was not the case. So I think that's just from like being the being the founder, being the CEO and just basically taking any role, at some point you can learn it. In in terms of leadership style, um I'm I'm really it's really interesting for me to see how this develops as the company grows because like there are different things that are required for me from managing individuals to managing managers.

And um which there's obviously the way you give feedback but ultimately, I decided for myself like what is really important for me that I do, and then that I think others in the organization should do. Because anything like it it seems like anything I do will be emulated by the people reporting to me. And the number one thing that that I found so important is, like, and and this is this is a word that's overused, but I'm going to I'm going to tell you in a second, like it's it's really like collaboration and support. And what I mean by this is like every every single new hire, still to this day, that that starts at user terms.

I have a call with them and I tell them that you cannot bother me enough. Like, the only time you can bother me is if you didn't tell me things you should have told me. And that is now the case, like there we have CSMs contacting engineers for bugs. We have so many people reach out to me with with questions, or with like AEs helping CSMs.

I think everyone in the organization helps everyone because I think this was immediately what was super important to me as a leader, that that it applies to everyone. I love that. I think it's very difficult to a lot of people talk about open door policies or like reaching out, but they never really carve the time out. Um so I really I really like that.

Yeah. Think back I want to highlight, we we just hired we we hired um new CSMs and we told them because like the the larger the company gets, they can hear the words, but then they don't dare to reach out. So I told them, I have an hour earmarked for the first four weeks where my focus is on getting you started. I love that.

So, this means reach out and make sure you you use that hour. Yeah. And what happens if they don't use the hour? Do you reach out to them?

I then I tell them, like you didn't use it. Yeah. Absolutely. That's that's where you then start to bother me, right?

Where you didn't reach out, but you should have. Yeah. I think that I think that's important. You're going to put your thinking cap on for this one.

So, you're go back to when you were like a founder led sales. So, you're like building this thing out and you're at founder led sales. What was that one inflection point, that critical path that kind of flipped you over into, okay, now we have we're getting product market fit, we're going to start scaling. What was that inflection point for you?

I told you, you're make it to any cap. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I I always say jokingly, but there there's certainly a truth to it. Um that I realized we had product market fit when I could sell the product.

So what I mean by this is like I was not the trained sales person. I was not the person that knew exactly how to ask the right questions, but I knew that like I I showed empathy, I I tried to understand the problem. I didn't know how to multi-thread, how to uh really get the right people involved to push the contract forward. But once signing deals got easy, and there there's also the story, so we celebrated.

Like, when we close a deal, um I sent out an invite to everyone in the company or five-minute celebration. And, um, and at the beginning it was like every, I don't know, five weeks. How how do you guys work if all you're doing is sending out invites for five-minute celebrations? I didn't even tell you what We you close a lot of deals.

What I didn't I didn't even tell you what we drank during the celebration, so that also made it worse. even better. But basically, as soon as we as soon as we like had a celebration every day, I knew that we found something that works because it it drove interest to us. So, so what did you drink during the celebration?

Oh, it was it was always a vodka shot. It was. I the song like all we do is win, win, win like went in my mind as soon as you said that. Oh my god.

I'm going to have that in my head forever. So it's funny I I was I was at the Pink concert last night and she was joking around and she did Baby Shark. So she's like, and you could all thank me for your next two weeks of not getting being able to get that stupid song out of your ear. Um I like the idea of shots every time we win though.

That that's a good one. So, as the product continues to evolve and it's funny, I'm normally much more sales focused and less product focused, but I find myself asking a lot of product questions because I'm fascinated by the pivot and the journey um that you guys have taken. But especially with your engineering background, there there's this balance between like innovation and wanting to tweak the product and make the product better and perfection, right? If we can't ship this until it's good.

Like you you can't ship crap. How do you how do you balance that that inflection of like, is it innovation? Is it execution? And what wins and when do you just say ship it?

Um I would I would even add a third layer to this. I think there's there's the innovation of like big products really, like that maybe a new um line of product that drives new revenue versus the day-to-day feature functionality of individual products. I find myself this is actually much like it's so easy to be in the like daily grind of like this customer requests this, this customer requests this, so let's make this small feature, let's make this small this small feature. I find myself very uh like it it very hard to say no to small features, and now we we need to have rules around all right, it needs to be requested at least X times until we make this functionality.

So basically summing myself out and thinking more about the product. And then Christian's telling all his favorite customers, hey, request this. Hey, request this. If I like request this big piece, please.

Okay. Because um I think the um the interesting thing is I'm we're actually we don't have issues with not shipping. Because and I always describe this and I think because my brother's a maniac and he wants everything shipped extremely quickly. I think we have this um Your brother and Dale would get along.

Um it it's basically, I think he's just he's just completely scared of having big company processes of um like how because it slows everything down. So we we in a sense we we release pretty much everything pretty much way too quickly, but it means for us we have kind of like the CSMs that that especially work with the product in like the first two weeks. So we have kind of like our own testing through our own employees. But the we always ship extremely quickly.

We we we get the complaint that we ship too quickly from from some people in the organization, but I think it's really the only way um how you can innovate fast enough. I love that. So, at Revenue Reimagined, we believe in giving more than getting. So, uh you've been gracious to give something to your audience, let them know.

And I just it looks really cool, by the way. Yes, no, it it really is. Um so it it's just swag. Um but it's actually it's actually a Moma lamp, so the first time we saw it in Moma.

It's it's a user terms branded lamp where you it's a um a magnet in the middle when you connect the magnet, then it lights up. And we we started sending these out for customers as a thank you to reference calls. And we we after that like they they did the reference call, we we sent them this then we got another thank you from them where they showed us photos of how like their children played with it. So definitely check it out.

It's a it's a really uh cute lamp. And we're going to give that to uh 10 10 uh 10 listeners. The first eight. Because we we're each going to we're each going to steal one.

We're not getting 10 10 listeners. We will we will figure something out to do for 10 listeners. I just pulled it up on my screen and it that does look pretty darn cool. Yeah, super cool.

Super cool. Um, Christian, one of the things that I don't think gets talked about in tech enough, um is DEI. Um, you know, I've always made it a point leading sales teams to build very diverse teams. I don't want 25 little mes running around.

What is what is user gems approach to DEI? And I'm I want to piggyback that with, do you think tech is doing enough to solve the ongoing lack of DEI? Yeah. Um it's it's such a good question and um the later you try to solve this, the more difficult it gets.

Like we we we had good diversity across the company, but for example, we didn't have it in the sales team, where I think the first five people were uh like young, male uh sales people, and we really thought like, hey, like we we will run into a problem here because people want to see who am I working with? Can I identify with that person? So, um and we we have um like our leader in marketing is is female and Asian, so we know the importance of the diversity of thought. She always pushes back on me, and it's super, super helpful in in that direction.

So for us, it was really identifying, what are even the pockets in the organization where we where we are maybe lacking in diversity and what can we do about that? And and for us, it was because the the longer you neglect this, the the more it becomes kind of like the self-fulfilling prophecy where fewer people apply that that are diverse because they can't identify themselves in the organization. And so we like like as soon as we identified this, we we made sure that we talked to a lot of in this case like female sales people to understand like what do they care about? How can we make the organization better for them and how can we make sure that um we also add and in this case, female sellers to our team.

Awesome. I love that answer. Um, so the founders and CEOs are always the visionaries of their companies. So, what do you see and things are evolving so quickly in B2B Tech.

For user gems, where do you guys see yourself progressing to over the next two, three, five years? Mhm. I think it's such a timely question because there's I mean, I think the speed of innovation is always the case, but I think there's so many things coming out right now specifically, and I'm also um uh referring to like uh Gmail is um really cutting back on what they identify as spam and it gets basically um so far the answer has always been, oh, what is that? The answer is always been like, let's send more emails, and it's already not working for the last few years, and now even more so, right?

Like the answer in a bad environment is always let's send more emails, and that's not working anymore. And so what is the the way where we see the world is going to is not that there will be no more like cold outreach. There's there's a need, there's like it solves a need, right? Like people identify, hey, I could really I could really need this product, it can actually help me.

But you need to be much, much more thoughtful around who am I contacting and why. So, um I call this kind of like every email, every touchpoint that you have needs to justify its existence. And this means we're not putting them into a 12-step sequence anymore because like maybe the eighth step doesn't work anymore, and instead of the eighth step of like this follow-up email, I I reach out maybe to someone else in the organization or I have an advertising. Um and add to them.

So that that's a really long answer for I think that we are getting much, much more thoughtful around every single step that's being taken by every single person in the revenue organization. So the SDR, the AE, even in the advertising. So, and when we think about user terms, is like we think about the the signal of a past champion joining their job is a really, really valuable one, right? It's for the SDR, you should certainly reach out.

It make it has a high conversion rate compared to let's say a cold email in um getting a meeting with that person. And there are more signals that have a a good conversion rate. So where we want to get to is, what are more of the signals that we can enable you and maybe even like rank and make sure you're taking the the right next best approach in your outreach. Love that.

I think it's super important. Yeah, absolutely. All right. Let's uh let's do some rapid fire.

The rules here are 10 words or less or Dale hits the gong. Um All right. Where's the gong? Is there a gong or is this No, I'm going to have to get a gong.

He says it every time. I don't know. Might have to get a gong. Uh, Christian, if you weren't in tech, what profession would you be in?

Uh, something with I I'd be in uh investment banker, something with finance. I just love playing with numbers. Engineer to owner of a a founder to investment banker. Cool.

Yeah, but I was not allowed to be in tech, right? So. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. Um, so you're going back, you're in your founder led sales, going into product market fit.

What do you start first? Marketing or sales? Uh, you need to start with sales. Like you need to talk to the customer first and understand what they care.

I love that. What's the uh first app you check when you wake up on your phone? It's my eight sleep bed to see how I slept. I thought of getting one of those.

We'll have a whole separate conversation about that. Uh the cool it's the cooling bed, right? That is right. Yeah.

Nice. Super cool. Um, I think this will be an interesting one for you. What's the most used emoji in your work chats?

Ooh. I think it's a thumbs up. Okay. Or the ta-da.

The I like the ta-da. Let's let's change it to ta-da. Yeah. I like that.

Nice. I was going to think it was like the vodka like cheer thing. No, we are we are mature organization now, okay? Even we're not even doing the vodka shots anymore.

Question, what's the uh what's what's your one go-to to unwind after a long day? The answer is like whether it's a long day or not, it's meditation. And that's during the day as well. Nice.

Awesome. Last question as we wrap up. Dream vacation destination. In the wilderness in Norway, watching the northern lights.

Yes. Love that. Very cool. Very cool.

Christian, thank you uh so much for joining us. It was great to chat with you. It was great to learn about your journey to learn about user gems. Uh where can people find you?

What's the best way to get in touch? Uh I think LinkedIn is really easy and [email protected]. And if you run into me, there's a chance it's my twin brother.

I love it. Awesome. Christian, thank you so much. It's been a pleasure.

Have an absolutely awesome rest of the day. Awesome. Great to chat.