Fixing the Constraint Holding Back Your Startup Growth

Jackie Leahy, founder of Activate the Magic, joins the Bridge the Gap podcast to unpack why most early-stage revenue problems are invisible on standard dashboards. She explains that CROs, naturally gifted at closing, often mistakenly focus on conversion rates when the real bottlenecks actually lie in top-of-funnel acquisition or post-sale onboarding and expansion. The conversation highlights the dangers of using AI to patch over broken fundamental processes instead of building solid structural foundations. Jackie emphasizes that before investing heavily in complex tools, companies must master the basics: documenting workflows, trusting their data, and adopting simple systems like HubSpot or even Google Sheets until operational pain forces an upgrade. Finally, the discussion dives into the rapidly shifting GTM tech landscape. Jackie and the hosts share hot takes on legacy tools, suggesting giants like Gong and ZoomInfo are losing ground to agile, AI-native alternatives like Common Room, Sybill, and Freckle. They also stress how the shift from seat-based to usage-based pricing models will define the next era of RevOps.

Discussed in this episode

• Why CROs falsely identify conversion as the main constraint due to their own expertise in closing deals.
• How Net Revenue Retention (NRR) can dangerously mask underlying Gross Revenue Retention (GRR) and churn issues.
• The three simplified stages of early-stage GTM: acquisition, conversion, and expansion.
• Why chaos is a natural byproduct of growth and the absence of 'dumpster fires' is a red flag.
• The risk of using AI prompts to patch over broken fundamental processes instead of building proper systems.
• When to hire a RevOps professional versus adding another Account Executive to the team.
• The shift from rigid, seat-based SaaS contracts to consumption and usage-based pricing models.
• Why legacy GTM platforms like Gong and ZoomInfo are losing ground to agile tools like Common Room and Sybill.

Episode highlights

1. 0:00 — Intro and Jackie's RevOps philosophy
2. 2:30 — Why CROs hyper-focus on conversion
3. 5:15 — How NRR masks Gross Revenue Retention
4. 8:00 — Conducting a new tech stack audit
5. 11:30 — AI limitations and the need for human RevOps
6. 14:20 — When a startup actually needs RevOps
7. 18:45 — The three core GTM fundamentals
8. 22:00 — Product vs. Sales-focused CEOs
9. 28:15 — Tech teardown: Common Room and Sybill
10. 31:10 — Debate: Are Gong and ZoomInfo dying?
11. 35:30 — Usage-based vs. seat-based pricing
12. 40:45 — Rapid fire questions

Key takeaways

• Fix your bottleneck before scaling volume.
• NRR often masks dangerous churn rates.
• Master fundamentals before deploying AI.
• Chaos is the glitter of growth.
• Usage-based pricing beats seat-based constraints.

Transcript

earn stage. It's about acquisition, earn stage. It's about acquisition, earn stage. It's about acquisition, getting a message out to the right getting a message out to the right getting a message out to the right people at the right time, getting them people at the right time, getting them people at the right time, getting them excited enough to hop on a call with excited enough to hop on a call with excited enough to hop on a call with you.

you. you. >> What's the very first thing that you >> What's the very first thing that you >> What's the very first thing that you look at an audit when you're stepping look at an audit when you're stepping look at an audit when you're stepping into a new revenue engine? into a new revenue engine?

into a new revenue engine? >> It's just so so necessary to take a step >> It's just so so necessary to take a step >> It's just so so necessary to take a step back and say, "Okay, what is actually my back and say, "Okay, what is actually my back and say, "Okay, what is actually my constraint here?" Welcome back to another episode of the Welcome back to another episode of the Welcome back to another episode of the Bridge the Gap podcast powered by Bridge the Gap podcast powered by Bridge the Gap podcast powered by Revenue Reimagined. Today's guest is the Revenue Reimagined.

Today's guest is the Revenue Reimagined. Today's guest is the amazing, the incredible, the fantastic amazing, the incredible, the fantastic amazing, the incredible, the fantastic man, I'm hyping this up, Jackie Ley and man, I'm hyping this up, Jackie Ley and man, I'm hyping this up, Jackie Ley and Little Freddy. Um, Jackie is the founder Little Freddy. Um, Jackie is the founder Little Freddy.

Um, Jackie is the founder of Activate the Magic where she helps of Activate the Magic where she helps of Activate the Magic where she helps CRO's bring certainty to their revenue CRO's bring certainty to their revenue CRO's bring certainty to their revenue engine. She works with scaling SAS engine. She works with scaling SAS engine. She works with scaling SAS companies to uncover hidden bottlenecks, companies to uncover hidden bottlenecks, companies to uncover hidden bottlenecks, fix misalignment across go to market, fix misalignment across go to market, fix misalignment across go to market, and build systems that actually support and build systems that actually support and build systems that actually support predictable growth.

This episode is predictable growth. This episode is predictable growth. This episode is going to be why most revenue problems going to be why most revenue problems going to be why most revenue problems aren't visible in dashboards. What's aren't visible in dashboards.

What's aren't visible in dashboards. What's really breaking inside GTM systems, how really breaking inside GTM systems, how really breaking inside GTM systems, how to fix the engine, not just the to fix the engine, not just the to fix the engine, not just the reporting, and a few sneak peeks from reporting, and a few sneak peeks from reporting, and a few sneak peeks from Freddy. Jackie, welcome to the show. Freddy.

Jackie, welcome to the show. Freddy. Jackie, welcome to the show. >> Thanks for having me.

And Freddy, >> Thanks for having me. And Freddy, >> Thanks for having me. And Freddy, >> special guest. Freddy is on the show.

>> special guest. Freddy is on the show. >> special guest. Freddy is on the show.

Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Super Freddy in in the artwork.

Freddy Super Freddy in in the artwork. Freddy Super Freddy in in the artwork. Freddy might be part of the part of the might be part of the part of the might be part of the part of the program. Like, let's be let's be real program.

Like, let's be let's be real program. Like, let's be let's be real here. here. here.

>> Clicks. If you want clicks, this little >> Clicks. If you want clicks, this little >> Clicks. If you want clicks, this little guy, man, guy, man, guy, man, >> I love that.

Um, super pumped to have >> I love that. Um, super pumped to have >> I love that. Um, super pumped to have you on the on the show because I think you on the on the show because I think you on the on the show because I think RevOps is like one of the fastest RevOps is like one of the fastest RevOps is like one of the fastest growing growing growing departments, places people need, and departments, places people need, and departments, places people need, and it's starting to go lower and lower from it's starting to go lower and lower from it's starting to go lower and lower from a like a revenue perspective. But one of a like a revenue perspective.

But one of a like a revenue perspective. But one of the things you talk about a lot is that the things you talk about a lot is that the things you talk about a lot is that you can't fix what you can't see. And so you can't fix what you can't see. And so you can't fix what you can't see.

And so you say most CRO are flying blind. What you say most CRO are flying blind. What you say most CRO are flying blind. What are they missing?

are they missing? are they missing? >> Okay. So it's it's not so much that >> Okay.

So it's it's not so much that >> Okay. So it's it's not so much that they're missing, it's that they're they're missing, it's that they're they're missing, it's that they're hyperfocused, right? CRO's become CRO's hyperfocused, right? CRO's become CRO's hyperfocused, right?

CRO's become CRO's because they're really good at closing because they're really good at closing because they're really good at closing deals. deals. deals. And so naturally they're just so And so naturally they're just so And so naturally they're just so passionate and so competent like passionate and so competent like passionate and so competent like overcompetent at the like mid to bottom overcompetent at the like mid to bottom overcompetent at the like mid to bottom of the funnel that any of the funnel that any of the funnel that any if if if you're a hammer everything if if if you're a hammer everything if if if you're a hammer everything looks right and so they're looking at a looks right and so they're looking at a looks right and so they're looking at a number and they're like let's close more number and they're like let's close more number and they're like let's close more deals.

deals. deals. Very rarely though, I'm anything that I Very rarely though, I'm anything that I Very rarely though, I'm anything that I say it's like up to like 60 million, say it's like up to like 60 million, say it's like up to like 60 million, right? Above that, I have no idea what's right?

Above that, I have no idea what's right? Above that, I have no idea what's going on, you guys. Uh, but up going on, you guys. Uh, but up going on, you guys.

Uh, but up >> I love that honesty. >> I love that honesty. >> I love that honesty. >> Yeah, that's for somebody else.

Um, but >> Yeah, that's for somebody else. Um, but >> Yeah, that's for somebody else. Um, but rarely is that going to be the rarely is that going to be the rarely is that going to be the constraint, right? So, I like to constraint, right?

So, I like to constraint, right? So, I like to simplify the learning by design customer simplify the learning by design customer simplify the learning by design customer journey bow tie, which has seven journey bow tie, which has seven journey bow tie, which has seven segments. I like to just bring it down segments. I like to just bring it down segments.

I like to just bring it down to three for early stage. Acquisition, to three for early stage. Acquisition, to three for early stage. Acquisition, conversion, and expansion.

And so, CNOs conversion, and expansion. And so, CNOs conversion, and expansion. And so, CNOs love to hang out in the conversion, love to hang out in the conversion, love to hang out in the conversion, right? Like what turn whatever I get right?

Like what turn whatever I get right? Like what turn whatever I get into cold hard cash. That's what that's into cold hard cash. That's what that's into cold hard cash.

That's what that's what they do. They're really the what they do. They're really the what they do. They're really the constraint only constraint only constraint only because they're really good at it.

because they're really good at it. because they're really good at it. Um, that's just not the hardest part Um, that's just not the hardest part Um, that's just not the hardest part about early stage. Early stage, it's about early stage.

Early stage, it's about early stage. Early stage, it's about uh acquisition, about uh acquisition, about uh acquisition, getting a message out to the right getting a message out to the right getting a message out to the right people at the right time, getting them people at the right time, getting them people at the right time, getting them excited enough to hop on a call with excited enough to hop on a call with excited enough to hop on a call with you, right? And so it it's just so so you, right? And so it it's just so so you, right?

And so it it's just so so necessary to take a step back and say, necessary to take a step back and say, necessary to take a step back and say, okay, what is actually my constraint okay, what is actually my constraint okay, what is actually my constraint here? It's like a hose. And so if I I've here? It's like a hose.

And so if I I've here? It's like a hose. And so if I I've got a hose like both like in h like got a hose like both like in h like got a hose like both like in h like kinkedked in half, there might be little kinkedked in half, there might be little kinkedked in half, there might be little kinks over there or over there, but kinks over there or over there, but kinks over there or over there, but until you fix this, it doesn't matter. until you fix this, it doesn't matter.

until you fix this, it doesn't matter. And I like so one of the things that I'm And I like so one of the things that I'm And I like so one of the things that I'm seeing a lot because we went through seeing a lot because we went through seeing a lot because we went through this growth at all cost world and they this growth at all cost world and they this growth at all cost world and they were so worried about MR AR bringing were so worried about MR AR bringing were so worried about MR AR bringing things in that GRR is suffering a lot things in that GRR is suffering a lot things in that GRR is suffering a lot and I don't think the a lot of founders and I don't think the a lot of founders and I don't think the a lot of founders CRO's CEOs are really understanding CRO's CEOs are really understanding CRO's CEOs are really understanding because they also have like this NR because they also have like this NR because they also have like this NR number so like NR is masking the churn number so like NR is masking the churn number so like NR is masking the churn turn ratio that's happening and I think turn ratio that's happening and I think turn ratio that's happening and I think I think the CRO's and CEOs of these I think the CRO's and CEOs of these I think the CRO's and CEOs of these companies have a better handle on the companies have a better handle on the companies have a better handle on the front end and as you were just saying front end and as you were just saying front end and as you were just saying bring as many people in as possible get bring as many people in as possible get bring as many people in as possible get them um get them in the funnel close them um get them in the funnel close them um get them in the funnel close them acquisition acquisition acquisition them acquisition acquisition acquisition them acquisition acquisition acquisition and then all of a sudden they go to get and then all of a sudden they go to get and then all of a sudden they go to get funding and the and now the investors funding and the and now the investors funding and the and now the investors are like well what's your GR look like are like well what's your GR look like are like well what's your GR look like and like they're under 85%. and like they're under 85%. and like they're under 85%.

And then the cut the the investors are And then the cut the the investors are And then the cut the the investors are like, "Well, you're not you're not like, "Well, you're not you're not like, "Well, you're not you're not investable, investable, investable, >> right?" >> right?" >> right?" >> So, like where where's that shift from >> So, like where where's that shift from >> So, like where where's that shift from like the NR the ARM Mr world into like like the NR the ARM Mr world into like like the NR the ARM Mr world into like the GRR world because you do need the GRR world because you do need the GRR world because you do need topofunnel, but you also need to make topofunnel, but you also need to make topofunnel, but you also need to make sure you're retaining.

sure you're retaining. sure you're retaining. >> Yeah, exactly. Um this is why I like to >> Yeah, exactly.

Um this is why I like to >> Yeah, exactly. Um this is why I like to on a quarterly basis um we always step on a quarterly basis um we always step on a quarterly basis um we always step back and see what the the key constraint back and see what the the key constraint back and see what the the key constraint is, right? And so if we've been fixing is, right? And so if we've been fixing is, right?

And so if we've been fixing conversion a whole lot, I mean conversion a whole lot, I mean conversion a whole lot, I mean acquisition, conversion usually takes acquisition, conversion usually takes acquisition, conversion usually takes care of itself. Uh care of itself. Uh care of itself. Uh uh but acquis if we've been focusing on uh but acquis if we've been focusing on uh but acquis if we've been focusing on that all of a sudden that's no longer that all of a sudden that's no longer that all of a sudden that's no longer the that's no longer the constraint.

the that's no longer the constraint. the that's no longer the constraint. What what might start becoming the What what might start becoming the What what might start becoming the glaring glaring glaring constraint is you're not getting people constraint is you're not getting people constraint is you're not getting people onboarded properly or onboarded properly or onboarded properly or uh you've got a accounts payable uh you've got a accounts payable uh you've got a accounts payable problem. problem.

problem. That's that's a that's a that's a turn That's that's a that's a that's a turn That's that's a that's a that's a turn problem. That's a that's a retention problem. That's a that's a retention problem.

That's a that's a retention expansion problem. um which expansion problem. um which expansion problem. um which one of one of the reasons I'm loving one of one of the reasons I'm loving one of one of the reasons I'm loving this new era of go to market is this new era of go to market is this new era of go to market is it's much less siloed I'm finding DTM it's much less siloed I'm finding DTM it's much less siloed I'm finding DTM becoming much less siloed um and our and becoming much less siloed um and our and becoming much less siloed um and our and our biggest impass is is usually with our biggest impass is is usually with our biggest impass is is usually with the finance so like connecting the the finance so like connecting the the finance so like connecting the finance so now that we're not siloed we finance so now that we're not siloed we finance so now that we're not siloed we have a better grasp around have a better grasp around have a better grasp around uh finishing that loop between okay is uh finishing that loop between okay is uh finishing that loop between okay is who we're onboarding are is it working are those people happy are is it working are those people happy are is it working are those people happy are they getting a ton of value and are they getting a ton of value and are they getting a ton of value and using that to inform acquisition again using that to inform acquisition again using that to inform acquisition again like so completing that loop um so yeah like so completing that loop um so yeah like so completing that loop um so yeah exactly so if I'm looking if it's 85% exactly so if I'm looking if it's 85% exactly so if I'm looking if it's 85% I'm I'm going to dig into what is going I'm I'm going to dig into what is going I'm I'm going to dig into what is going on on on are we us not doing a good job of are we us not doing a good job of are we us not doing a good job of onboarding.

Um, can we just get quicker onboarding. Um, can we just get quicker onboarding. Um, can we just get quicker to that first impact? May maybe it's to that first impact?

May maybe it's to that first impact? May maybe it's literally just like getting them to use literally just like getting them to use literally just like getting them to use it successfully because there's there's it successfully because there's there's it successfully because there's there's so everything's vying for our attention. so everything's vying for our attention. so everything's vying for our attention.

So like one of our clients, she bought So like one of our clients, she bought So like one of our clients, she bought something months ago and she's like, I something months ago and she's like, I something months ago and she's like, I can't believe we haven't even gotten can't believe we haven't even gotten can't believe we haven't even gotten this implemented. this implemented. this implemented. It's like I I bet I bet right there's It's like I I bet I bet right there's It's like I I bet I bet right there's like a hundred million things going on.

like a hundred million things going on. like a hundred million things going on. So, is it First impact? If it if is it So, is it First impact?

If it if is it So, is it First impact? If it if is it onboarding? Is it just doing a better onboarding? Is it just doing a better onboarding?

Is it just doing a better job about renewals? Um my suspicion job about renewals? Um my suspicion job about renewals? Um my suspicion though right now is because everyone is though right now is because everyone is though right now is because everyone is very like, I'll sample this, I'll try very like, I'll sample this, I'll try very like, I'll sample this, I'll try this, um I'll test it out, I'll test it this, um I'll test it out, I'll test it this, um I'll test it out, I'll test it out.

So, they sign up with a credit out. So, they sign up with a credit out. So, they sign up with a credit card, uh, forget about it, and then all card, uh, forget about it, and then all card, uh, forget about it, and then all of a sudden the credit card expires or of a sudden the credit card expires or of a sudden the credit card expires or what have you. Um, and yeah, sure.

And what have you. Um, and yeah, sure. And what have you. Um, and yeah, sure.

And so, like, so, like, so, like, >> or they just use a one-time use card and >> or they just use a one-time use card and >> or they just use a one-time use card and then it doesn't even matter. then it doesn't even matter. then it doesn't even matter. >> Okay, Adam, with with the pro tips here.

>> Okay, Adam, with with the pro tips here. >> Okay, Adam, with with the pro tips here. Uh, yeah, exactly. And so if you were Uh, yeah, exactly.

And so if you were Uh, yeah, exactly. And so if you were just to look at the metrics, you'd be just to look at the metrics, you'd be just to look at the metrics, you'd be like, "Oh, we need to do two, three more like, "Oh, we need to do two, three more like, "Oh, we need to do two, three more deals." deals." deals."

>> So you just you you just said a lot of >> So you just you you just said a lot of >> So you just you you just said a lot of things, right? And I agree with all of things, right? And I agree with all of things, right? And I agree with all of them, but them, but them, but >> you got to start somewhere.

Um, and as >> you got to start somewhere. Um, and as >> you got to start somewhere. Um, and as someone who's in the, you know, someone who's in the, you know, someone who's in the, you know, fractional revop space, like you don't fractional revop space, like you don't fractional revop space, like you don't have the benefit of, you know, working have the benefit of, you know, working have the benefit of, you know, working full-time for a company, getting full-time for a company, getting full-time for a company, getting exposure to everything over years, like exposure to everything over years, like exposure to everything over years, like no one's calling you to say, hey, hey, no one's calling you to say, hey, hey, no one's calling you to say, hey, hey, it's similar to us. Hey, Jackie, it's similar to us.

Hey, Jackie, it's similar to us. Hey, Jackie, everything's going great. I'd love to everything's going great. I'd love to everything's going great.

I'd love to use Activate the magic. Like it it's use Activate the magic. Like it it's use Activate the magic. Like it it's usually the opposite.

It's usually like, usually the opposite. It's usually like, usually the opposite. It's usually like, we have a problem. Someone left.

We're we have a problem. Someone left. We're we have a problem. Someone left.

We're brand new. We don't need full-time brand new. We don't need full-time brand new. We don't need full-time revop.

Whatever it happens to be. What's revop. Whatever it happens to be. What's revop.

Whatever it happens to be. What's the very first thing that you look at an the very first thing that you look at an the very first thing that you look at an audit when you're stepping into a new audit when you're stepping into a new audit when you're stepping into a new revenue engine? Like where do you start? revenue engine?

Like where do you start? revenue engine? Like where do you start? >> Yeah.

So, we're going to do a sort of uh >> Yeah. So, we're going to do a sort of uh >> Yeah. So, we're going to do a sort of uh tech stack audit and just general tech stack audit and just general tech stack audit and just general um h what's happening acquisition, um h what's happening acquisition, um h what's happening acquisition, conversion, expansion. What what's the conversion, expansion.

What what's the conversion, expansion. What what's the level of level of level of broken? What's the level of dumpster broken? What's the level of dumpster broken?

What's the level of dumpster fires? Because fires? Because fires? Because chaos is the glitter of growth.

chaos is the glitter of growth. chaos is the glitter of growth. And so if there's not dumpster fires And so if there's not dumpster fires And so if there's not dumpster fires everywhere, I'm more suspicious, everywhere, I'm more suspicious, everywhere, I'm more suspicious, >> right? And so our job is to figure out >> right?

And so our job is to figure out >> right? And so our job is to figure out where all they are. Also listen to the where all they are. Also listen to the where all they are.

Also listen to the reps and the and people who are reps and the and people who are reps and the and people who are squawking. Okay, what I want to gather squawking. Okay, what I want to gather squawking. Okay, what I want to gather all of those inputs and then um both all of those inputs and then um both all of those inputs and then um both like hard cold hard facts, but also like like hard cold hard facts, but also like like hard cold hard facts, but also like the human input.

Uh, and I want to take the human input. Uh, and I want to take the human input. Uh, and I want to take a step back and look at all those a step back and look at all those a step back and look at all those initiatives. And I want to rank them by initiatives.

And I want to rank them by initiatives. And I want to rank them by the impact that it'll have if we focus the impact that it'll have if we focus the impact that it'll have if we focus on it. Um, what how much revenue will on it. Um, what how much revenue will on it.

Um, what how much revenue will this unblock or unblock? Um, how this unblock or unblock? Um, how this unblock or unblock? Um, how confident are we that if we do this, confident are we that if we do this, confident are we that if we do this, it's going to happen and then ease how it's going to happen and then ease how it's going to happen and then ease how simple is it to make it happen.

Right? simple is it to make it happen. Right? simple is it to make it happen.

Right? So link on all those and then pick what So link on all those and then pick what So link on all those and then pick what is what is telling you to pick. is what is telling you to pick. is what is telling you to pick.

>> But can't can't I just put that in in a >> But can't can't I just put that in in a >> But can't can't I just put that in in a in a fancy cloud prompt. Like why do I in a fancy cloud prompt. Like why do I in a fancy cloud prompt. Like why do I need people for that?

need people for that? need people for that? >> You you kind of don't. I actually just >> You you kind of don't.

I actually just >> You you kind of don't. I actually just published a GitHub skill. published a GitHub skill. published a GitHub skill.

>> I was trying to give you a layup to be >> I was trying to give you a layup to be >> I was trying to give you a layup to be like, "No, you can't just put this in a like, "No, you can't just put this in a like, "No, you can't just put this in a cloud prompt." cloud prompt." cloud prompt." >> You can.

No, you probably can, but >> You can. No, you probably can, but >> You can. No, you probably can, but people don't. people don't.

people don't. >> I mean, touche. >> I mean, touche. >> I mean, touche.

>> Yeah. Um, yeah. I actually published a >> Yeah. Um, yeah.

I actually published a >> Yeah. Um, yeah. I actually published a skill. You can grab it.

um to see skill. You can grab it. um to see skill. You can grab it.

um to see whether your constraint is adjusted whether your constraint is adjusted whether your constraint is adjusted acquisition or conversion. Um but either acquisition or conversion. Um but either acquisition or conversion. Um but either via MCP enter HubSpot or any old CSV, via MCP enter HubSpot or any old CSV, via MCP enter HubSpot or any old CSV, it'll kind of like take you through.

Um it'll kind of like take you through. Um it'll kind of like take you through. Um but yeah, it it might be hard to do if but yeah, it it might be hard to do if but yeah, it it might be hard to do if you don't have like a technical you don't have like a technical you don't have like a technical experience or like has seen for me to experience or like has seen for me to experience or like has seen for me to say because I've seen like hundreds. say because I've seen like hundreds.

say because I've seen like hundreds. >> Yeah, I mean listen, I I think there's >> Yeah, I mean listen, I I think there's >> Yeah, I mean listen, I I think there's good and bad with AI, right? Like full good and bad with AI, right? Like full good and bad with AI, right?

Like full disclosure. So Dale and I spent an hour disclosure. So Dale and I spent an hour disclosure. So Dale and I spent an hour before this call like literally kne before this call like literally kne before this call like literally kne we're rebuilding our web Dale is re we're rebuilding our web Dale is re we're rebuilding our web Dale is re rebuilding our website um and like rebuilding our website um and like rebuilding our website um and like kneede in coding.

Um I think he did a kneede in coding. Um I think he did a kneede in coding. Um I think he did a really good like it I think he did a really good like it I think he did a really good like it I think he did a really good job. Um like super impressed really good job.

Um like super impressed really good job. Um like super impressed >> but I think what's happening with AI >> but I think what's happening with AI >> but I think what's happening with AI right now and listen we're huge right now and listen we're huge right now and listen we're huge proponents of AI. I think everyone proponents of AI. I think everyone proponents of AI.

I think everyone should be using it responsibly, should be using it responsibly, should be using it responsibly, >> but what I'm seeing is I think people >> but what I'm seeing is I think people >> but what I'm seeing is I think people think, "Oh, I could just put a prompt in think, "Oh, I could just put a prompt in think, "Oh, I could just put a prompt in Cloud and fix all of my problems because Cloud and fix all of my problems because Cloud and fix all of my problems because AI is going to do it." And rather than AI is going to do it." And rather than AI is going to do it." And rather than whether it be Revenue Reimagined or whether it be Revenue Reimagined or whether it be Revenue Reimagined or Activate the Magic or hiring a full-time Activate the Magic or hiring a full-time Activate the Magic or hiring a full-time RevOps person or demand, whatever it is, RevOps person or demand, whatever it is, RevOps person or demand, whatever it is, >> there are places for AI to replace, >> there are places for AI to replace, >> there are places for AI to replace, there are places for AI to accelerate.

there are places for AI to accelerate. there are places for AI to accelerate. How are you guiding your clients on how How are you guiding your clients on how How are you guiding your clients on how to use AI properly versus, oh well, you to use AI properly versus, oh well, you to use AI properly versus, oh well, you don't need RevOps. You you just need to don't need RevOps.

You you just need to don't need RevOps. You you just need to plug into Cloud and Cloud will be your plug into Cloud and Cloud will be your plug into Cloud and Cloud will be your RevOps. Because I'll tell you, if you're RevOps. Because I'll tell you, if you're RevOps.

Because I'll tell you, if you're going to do that, pardon my French, going to do that, pardon my French, going to do that, pardon my French, you're going to [ __ ] your business. you're going to [ __ ] your business. you're going to [ __ ] your business. >> But I do want to say like at the if >> But I do want to say like at the if >> But I do want to say like at the if you're just starting out, if you're like you're just starting out, if you're like you're just starting out, if you're like in the 0ero one world, go for it, right?

in the 0ero one world, go for it, right? in the 0ero one world, go for it, right? like um when other people's money, other like um when other people's money, other like um when other people's money, other people's careers, job security start people's careers, job security start people's careers, job security start being on the line, it's it's time to be being on the line, it's it's time to be being on the line, it's it's time to be less cavalier about it. I would call I less cavalier about it.

I would call I less cavalier about it. I would call I would I would characterize that as would I would characterize that as would I would characterize that as cavalier. cavalier. cavalier.

>> Um yeah, >> Um yeah, >> Um yeah, >> that's a nicer way that's a nicer word >> that's a nicer way that's a nicer word >> that's a nicer way that's a nicer word than mine. And I think you know the the CERO that And I think you know the the CERO that And I think you know the the CERO that are that I see that are winning and just are that I see that are winning and just are that I see that are winning and just building momentum and actually like building momentum and actually like building momentum and actually like joyful when I talk to them um they joyful when I talk to them um they joyful when I talk to them um they really respect the revenue engine as as really respect the revenue engine as as really respect the revenue engine as as our overlord right it's uh it's you know our overlord right it's uh it's you know our overlord right it's uh it's you know process over heroics um all the things process over heroics um all the things process over heroics um all the things that revops have been screaming about in that revops have been screaming about in that revops have been screaming about in on LinkedIn for you know a decade But on LinkedIn for you know a decade But on LinkedIn for you know a decade But >> so when when does someone need revops? >> so when when does someone need revops? >> so when when does someone need revops?

So we we've run across this a lot, So we we've run across this a lot, So we we've run across this a lot, right? And we we work with companies right? And we we work with companies right? And we we work with companies call it from five to 100 plus.

And it call it from five to 100 plus. And it call it from five to 100 plus. And it amazes me amazes me amazes me the the the size of companies that don't have size of companies that don't have size of companies that don't have revops. Like $50 million ARR company revops.

Like $50 million ARR company revops. Like $50 million ARR company that we're working with, zero revops. that we're working with, zero revops. that we're working with, zero revops.

Like I I don't understand. When is the Like I I don't understand. When is the Like I I don't understand. When is the right time to stand up a RevOps right time to stand up a RevOps right time to stand up a RevOps function?

Here's something I keep seeing function? Here's something I keep seeing function? Here's something I keep seeing with sales teams I work with. Generic with sales teams I work with.

Generic with sales teams I work with. Generic sequences don't work anymore. We've all sequences don't work anymore. We've all sequences don't work anymore.

We've all gotten so good at turning out the noise gotten so good at turning out the noise gotten so good at turning out the noise that even your own buyers are ignoring that even your own buyers are ignoring that even your own buyers are ignoring you. The problem isn't your reps. It's you. The problem isn't your reps.

It's you. The problem isn't your reps. It's that your sequences are static and your that your sequences are static and your that your sequences are static and your signals are somewhere else entirely. signals are somewhere else entirely.

signals are somewhere else entirely. That's why our clients use Nooks. And That's why our clients use Nooks. And That's why our clients use Nooks.

And the thing that stuck with me is that the thing that stuck with me is that the thing that stuck with me is that their sequences actually stay fresh their sequences actually stay fresh their sequences actually stay fresh because the signals update them because the signals update them because the signals update them automatically. Right buyer, right moment automatically. Right buyer, right moment automatically. Right buyer, right moment with no manual babysitting.

If your with no manual babysitting. If your with no manual babysitting. If your outbound feels like it's shouting into a outbound feels like it's shouting into a outbound feels like it's shouting into a void, go check them out at void, go check them out at void, go check them out at nooks.ai/bridgeidge nooks.

ai/bridgeidge nooks.ai/bridgeidge the gap. the gap. the gap.

>> Um, again, this is for early stage. I >> Um, again, this is for early stage. I >> Um, again, this is for early stage. I encourage people to just use air uh air encourage people to just use air uh air encourage people to just use air uh air table or Google sheets.

Have your Google table or Google sheets. Have your Google table or Google sheets. Have your Google Sheets empire until Sheets empire until Sheets empire until you you are actually experiencing the you you are actually experiencing the you you are actually experiencing the pain of systems and process not being pain of systems and process not being pain of systems and process not being there, right? Um then it's time.

It's there, right? Um then it's time. It's there, right? Um then it's time.

It's time. Yeah. I mean hopefully you're time. Yeah.

I mean hopefully you're time. Yeah. I mean hopefully you're getting nops looking at stuff before getting nops looking at stuff before getting nops looking at stuff before that, but let's be real. Like it's not that, but let's be real.

Like it's not that, but let's be real. Like it's not it's not Yeah. So it's not Yeah. So it's not Yeah.

So >> can't can't hear you, Dale. >> can't can't hear you, Dale. >> can't can't hear you, Dale. >> Yeah.

I I think people are um it's funny >> Yeah. I I think people are um it's funny >> Yeah. I I think people are um it's funny because we're we're working with another because we're we're working with another because we're we're working with another client and there's a there was a client and there's a there was a client and there's a there was a conversation like do we hire revops or conversation like do we hire revops or conversation like do we hire revops or do we hire another AE, right? And it's do we hire another AE, right?

And it's do we hire another AE, right? And it's like because once again back to the like because once again back to the like because once again back to the initial conversation we're having, let's initial conversation we're having, let's initial conversation we're having, let's just put more people, more volume, more just put more people, more volume, more just put more people, more volume, more top of funnel. Like we'll fix the rest top of funnel. Like we'll fix the rest top of funnel.

Like we'll fix the rest of it. But then like you open up their of it. But then like you open up their of it. But then like you open up their HubSpot, nothing's in HubSpot.

there's HubSpot, nothing's in HubSpot. there's HubSpot, nothing's in HubSpot. there's no process where there's no renewal no process where there's no renewal no process where there's no renewal pipeline like and then there's a there's pipeline like and then there's a there's pipeline like and then there's a there's a conversation of like why is this a conversation of like why is this a conversation of like why is this happening? It's like well and I think happening?

It's like well and I think happening? It's like well and I think there's a um right wrong or indifferent. there's a um right wrong or indifferent. there's a um right wrong or indifferent.

I think there's a mentality of like I think there's a mentality of like I think there's a mentality of like that's just busy work and like there's that's just busy work and like there's that's just busy work and like there's other things that need to get done but other things that need to get done but other things that need to get done but like doing a visual chart doing a like doing a visual chart doing a like doing a visual chart doing a process flow doing like process flow doing like process flow doing like >> you are missing so many parts of what is >> you are missing so many parts of what is >> you are missing so many parts of what is actually happening in your overall actually happening in your overall actually happening in your overall process and then you can actually decide process and then you can actually decide process and then you can actually decide whether you should be using AI or not whether you should be using AI or not whether you should be using AI or not because not everything is AI enabled because not everything is AI enabled because not everything is AI enabled >> and so if you break it down into like >> and so if you break it down into like >> and so if you break it down into like it's fundamental processes like go to it's fundamental processes like go to it's fundamental processes like go to market market market >> if you want a solid go market execution >> if you want a solid go market execution >> if you want a solid go market execution strategy. Do the fundamentals really, strategy. Do the fundamentals really, strategy. Do the fundamentals really, really good.

I know it's super boring. really good. I know it's super boring. really good.

I know it's super boring. It's like, oh, put it in HubSpot. Oh, It's like, oh, put it in HubSpot. Oh, It's like, oh, put it in HubSpot.

Oh, create a dashboard. Oh, trust your data. create a dashboard. Oh, trust your data.

create a dashboard. Oh, trust your data. Like, if you do those three things, like Like, if you do those three things, like Like, if you do those three things, like the rest of it, you can build on top of, the rest of it, you can build on top of, the rest of it, you can build on top of, but if you can't do those three things, but if you can't do those three things, but if you can't do those three things, you're just wasting money. you're just wasting money.

you're just wasting money. >> That's a take. Um, >> That's a take. Um, >> That's a take.

Um, >> that that sounded like I disagree with >> that that sounded like I disagree with >> that that sounded like I disagree with you, Dale. you, Dale. you, Dale. >> I I agree with you, right?

But we're not >> I I agree with you, right? But we're not >> I I agree with you, right? But we're not in academia. in academia.

in academia. >> Sure. >> Sure. >> Sure.

>> So, I think I'm just so much of a like a >> So, I think I'm just so much of a like a >> So, I think I'm just so much of a like a realist that it's not going to happen. realist that it's not going to happen. realist that it's not going to happen. >> Why why why can we not why can we not >> Why why why can we not why can we not >> Why why why can we not why can we not like stop for a minute and be like, like stop for a minute and be like, like stop for a minute and be like, "Okay, let's document the process.

Let's "Okay, let's document the process. Let's "Okay, let's document the process. Let's understand what that looks like. Let's understand what that looks like.

Let's understand what that looks like. Let's agree on what the stages are between agree on what the stages are between agree on what the stages are between everything. Let's agree with what the everything. Let's agree with what the everything.

Let's agree with what the entrance and exit criteria are entrance and exit criteria are entrance and exit criteria are >> because GRR is important to us because >> because GRR is important to us because >> because GRR is important to us because getting the right ICP clients into our getting the right ICP clients into our getting the right ICP clients into our process the back end of Bow Tai is process the back end of Bow Tai is process the back end of Bow Tai is important to us. important to us. important to us. >> Yeah.

Yeah. I think it starts at the top >> Yeah. Yeah. I think it starts at the top >> Yeah.

Yeah. I think it starts at the top like if you have that sales leader who like if you have that sales leader who like if you have that sales leader who is responsible and has been through it is responsible and has been through it is responsible and has been through it before then yes they're they're going to before then yes they're they're going to before then yes they're they're going to approach it approach it approach it >> like you are. um >> like you are. um >> like you are.

um who I'm seeing as the sales leader at who I'm seeing as the sales leader at who I'm seeing as the sales leader at earlier stage is not that person yet. earlier stage is not that person yet. earlier stage is not that person yet. >> Okay.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> Um and so honestly I just want them to >> Um and so honestly I just want them to >> Um and so honestly I just want them to >> and maybe it's not the CRO by the way. >> and maybe it's not the CRO by the way.

>> and maybe it's not the CRO by the way. Maybe it's like starting even further at Maybe it's like starting even further at Maybe it's like starting even further at the top and it's the CEO that's not me. the top and it's the CEO that's not me. the top and it's the CEO that's not me.

>> CEO. Yeah. I you know I encounter a lot >> CEO. Yeah.

I you know I encounter a lot >> CEO. Yeah. I you know I encounter a lot of product of product of product >> right >> right >> right >> oriented uh or engineering >> oriented uh or engineering >> oriented uh or engineering >> uh CEOs and it is just >> uh CEOs and it is just >> uh CEOs and it is just >> um even if they do they're like okay we >> um even if they do they're like okay we >> um even if they do they're like okay we do need it and we'll do this huge thing do need it and we'll do this huge thing do need it and we'll do this huge thing it is amazing what we do and it's just it is amazing what we do and it's just it is amazing what we do and it's just like okay so what um like okay so what um like okay so what um >> who's who's who's harder to work with >> who's who's who's harder to work with >> who's who's who's harder to work with Jackie an engineering CEO or a sales CEO Jackie an engineering CEO or a sales CEO Jackie an engineering CEO or a sales CEO >> harder to work with >> harder to work with >> harder to work with >> yeah from Revs person an engineering CEO >> yeah from Revs person an engineering CEO >> yeah from Revs person an engineering CEO harder. Yeah, unless unless harder.

Yeah, unless unless harder. Yeah, unless unless it's not user usually a 22year-old who it's not user usually a 22year-old who it's not user usually a 22year-old who just graduated from MIT. just graduated from MIT. just graduated from MIT.

>> I mean touche, >> I mean touche, >> I mean touche, >> right? So if it's >> right? So if it's >> right? So if it's >> who who who founded their company and >> who who who founded their company and >> who who who founded their company and they know everything they know everything they know everything >> a minute ago.

They're not anything. >> a minute ago. They're not anything. >> a minute ago.

They're not anything. They're just a they're just a small They're just a they're just a small They're just a they're just a small child. child. child.

>> I we we we work with like we've worked >> I we we we work with like we've worked >> I we we we work with like we've worked with both like very product focused CEOs with both like very product focused CEOs with both like very product focused CEOs and very sales focused CEOs. I and very sales focused CEOs. I and very sales focused CEOs. I personally find the sales and I'm personally find the sales and I'm personally find the sales and I'm curious Dale's thought.

We've actually curious Dale's thought. We've actually curious Dale's thought. We've actually never talked about this. I find the never talked about this.

I find the never talked about this. I find the sales CEOs to be harder to work with sales CEOs to be harder to work with sales CEOs to be harder to work with because they're more resistant in my because they're more resistant in my because they're more resistant in my opinion to advice because they're sales opinion to advice because they're sales opinion to advice because they're sales CEOs and they know how to sell and like CEOs and they know how to sell and like CEOs and they know how to sell and like you're you're like what are you telling you're you're like what are you telling you're you're like what are you telling me? Like I'm a sales CEO where the me? Like I'm a sales CEO where the me?

Like I'm a sales CEO where the product ones I feel like are listen I product ones I feel like are listen I product ones I feel like are listen I pay you to tell me how to build go to pay you to tell me how to build go to pay you to tell me how to build go to market like tell me how to build go to market like tell me how to build go to market like tell me how to build go to market. rare exceptions, but I I market. rare exceptions, but I I market. rare exceptions, but I I remember one very very very vividly, and remember one very very very vividly, and remember one very very very vividly, and Dale will know who I'm talking about, Dale will know who I'm talking about, Dale will know who I'm talking about, where I feel like every single piece of where I feel like every single piece of where I feel like every single piece of advice it was like, "No, that's not advice it was like, "No, that's not advice it was like, "No, that's not going to work."

Or, "No, I want to do going to work." Or, "No, I want to do going to work." Or, "No, I want to do this or like, this or like, this or like, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> dude, then what? Why am I here?"

>> dude, then what? Why am I here?" >> dude, then what? Why am I here?"

>> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Well, that's the thing.

And that I think >> Well, that's the thing. And that I think >> Well, that's the thing. And that I think that's on us to sort of pressure test that's on us to sort of pressure test that's on us to sort of pressure test and be like, "Listen, and be like, "Listen, and be like, "Listen, >> 100%. >> 100%.

>> 100%. >> You're not in enough pain to listen to >> You're not in enough pain to listen to >> You're not in enough pain to listen to me. So, me. So, me.

So, >> go against that brick wall a couple more >> go against that brick wall a couple more >> go against that brick wall a couple more times and come back when you're crying times and come back when you're crying times and come back when you're crying and then we'll talk. and then we'll talk. and then we'll talk. >> Well, it's it's like >> Well, it's it's like >> Well, it's it's like >> it's like we tell a lot of our like even >> it's like we tell a lot of our like even >> it's like we tell a lot of our like even the product CEOs.

I I was just talking the product CEOs. I I was just talking the product CEOs. I I was just talking to somebody the other day today and and to somebody the other day today and and to somebody the other day today and and I was saying I never wanted to be like I was saying I never wanted to be like I was saying I never wanted to be like the first CRO in the door because I knew the first CRO in the door because I knew the first CRO in the door because I knew like you're going to run into all sorts like you're going to run into all sorts like you're going to run into all sorts of issues. In fact, I didn't want to be of issues.

In fact, I didn't want to be of issues. In fact, I didn't want to be the second, maybe even not the third the second, maybe even not the third the second, maybe even not the third because like by the time you're getting because like by the time you're getting because like by the time you're getting to that place of like hitting your head to that place of like hitting your head to that place of like hitting your head against the wall like you're saying against the wall like you're saying against the wall like you're saying you're like okay now I'm going to listen you're like okay now I'm going to listen you're like okay now I'm going to listen to somebody that and it's not that they to somebody that and it's not that they to somebody that and it's not that they don't understand like go to market the don't understand like go to market the don't understand like go to market the challenge is go to market is changing so challenge is go to market is changing so challenge is go to market is changing so quickly and you just cannot have you quickly and you just cannot have you quickly and you just cannot have you don't have enough bandwidth or time to don't have enough bandwidth or time to don't have enough bandwidth or time to understand the products that are coming understand the products that are coming understand the products that are coming out the changes that are happening like out the changes that are happening like out the changes that are happening like am I using claude am I using GPT am I am I using claude am I using GPT am I am I using claude am I using GPT am I using this wrapper that's on top of using this wrapper that's on top of using this wrapper that's on top of cloud like it's just creating so much cloud like it's just creating so much cloud like it's just creating so much stir and world that I think like you stir and world that I think like you stir and world that I think like you would have to do it full-time all the would have to do it full-time all the would have to do it full-time all the time. time. time.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um to be successful and if you don't >> Um to be successful and if you don't >> Um to be successful and if you don't have like a GTM engineer or a RevOps have like a GTM engineer or a RevOps have like a GTM engineer or a RevOps person that kind of understands this is person that kind of understands this is person that kind of understands this is very difficult um to comprehend because very difficult um to comprehend because very difficult um to comprehend because what worked 12 months ago is not working what worked 12 months ago is not working what worked 12 months ago is not working anymore.

anymore. anymore. >> Dude, what worked 12 days ago doesn't >> Dude, what worked 12 days ago doesn't >> Dude, what worked 12 days ago doesn't work anymore. Like it changes so fast.

work anymore. Like it changes so fast. work anymore. Like it changes so fast.

>> Yeah. Well, first principles stay the >> Yeah. Well, first principles stay the >> Yeah. Well, first principles stay the same though, right?

Go interrupt same though, right? Go interrupt same though, right? Go interrupt people's days and start a conversation, people's days and start a conversation, people's days and start a conversation, right? That's right?

That's right? That's >> Yeah, but it's it but it's harder and >> Yeah, but it's it but it's harder and >> Yeah, but it's it but it's harder and harder to do that. That's the problem is harder to do that. That's the problem is harder to do that.

That's the problem is like, like, like, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> listen, we we all, >> listen, we we all, >> listen, we we all, you know, have titles in our LinkedIn you know, have titles in our LinkedIn you know, have titles in our LinkedIn that make us nonimmune to the outreach that make us nonimmune to the outreach that make us nonimmune to the outreach of having our days interrupted to have of having our days interrupted to have of having our days interrupted to have conversations started. And h conversations started. And h conversations started. And h >> how often does something break through >> how often does something break through >> how often does something break through the noise that you're and and I will the noise that you're and and I will the noise that you're and and I will tell you I've tell you I've tell you I've >> we've bought lots of things from cold >> we've bought lots of things from cold >> we've bought lots of things from cold calls over the past 3 years, but how calls over the past 3 years, but how calls over the past 3 years, but how often does something really break often does something really break often does something really break through the noise that it's like, "Oh, through the noise that it's like, "Oh, through the noise that it's like, "Oh, I'm willing to read this or listen to I'm willing to read this or listen to I'm willing to read this or listen to this."

this." this." >> And now with Gmail's new filters, like >> And now with Gmail's new filters, like >> And now with Gmail's new filters, like you're lucky if it even gets to you. you're lucky if it even gets to you.

you're lucky if it even gets to you. >> No. Yeah. Exactly.

But what what I will >> No. Yeah. Exactly. But what what I will >> No.

Yeah. Exactly. But what what I will counter with is we have this whole crop counter with is we have this whole crop counter with is we have this whole crop of AI native companies that are growing of AI native companies that are growing of AI native companies that are growing 20% month over month. 20% month over month.

20% month over month. >> Yeah. So >> Yeah. So >> Yeah.

So >> yeah, >> yeah, >> yeah, >> I'm seeing them the the fastest growing >> I'm seeing them the the fastest growing >> I'm seeing them the the fastest growing companies are actually um via like some companies are actually um via like some companies are actually um via like some sort of marketplace or partner resell um sort of marketplace or partner resell um sort of marketplace or partner resell um is what I'm seeing is what I'm seeing is what I'm seeing >> because they can really get to >> because they can really get to >> because they can really get to Yeah. They're they're stacking the big Yeah. They're they're stacking the big Yeah. They're they're stacking the big Legos rather than the tiny little one Legos rather than the tiny little one Legos rather than the tiny little one one little piece Lego.

They got the big one little piece Lego. They got the big one little piece Lego. They got the big Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. >> And that's how you win. >> And that's how you win. >> And that's how you win.

>> That's how you win. And so it's >> That's how you win. And so it's >> That's how you win. And so it's happening.

Um, and like happening. Um, and like happening. Um, and like it used to be triple triple double it used to be triple triple double it used to be triple triple double double double. Now it's like 10x or go double double.

Now it's like 10x or go double double. Now it's like 10x or go away for funding. It's it's it's real. away for funding.

It's it's it's real. away for funding. It's it's it's real. It's real.

And like as as a consultant, It's real. And like as as a consultant, It's real. And like as as a consultant, as a like I have 10 people relying on as a like I have 10 people relying on as a like I have 10 people relying on who we bring in and right like so I kind who we bring in and right like so I kind who we bring in and right like so I kind of have to have a bias for who we of have to have a bias for who we of have to have a bias for who we partner with as well. partner with as well.

partner with as well. >> We have to as well. And and I'll tell >> We have to as well. And and I'll tell >> We have to as well.

And and I'll tell you like you know the AI native thing you like you know the AI native thing you like you know the AI native thing sounds super cool and it sounds super sounds super cool and it sounds super sounds super cool and it sounds super like interesting but we've worked with like interesting but we've worked with like interesting but we've worked with AI native companies and like it's AI native companies and like it's AI native companies and like it's difficult to get support things don't difficult to get support things don't difficult to get support things don't work oh just ask the bot it's like okay work oh just ask the bot it's like okay work oh just ask the bot it's like okay like that works to a certain point but like that works to a certain point but like that works to a certain point but like at scale with clients like it works like at scale with clients like it works like at scale with clients like it works with the early adopters like they want with the early adopters like they want with the early adopters like they want to tinker they want to play they're okay to tinker they want to play they're okay to tinker they want to play they're okay with things failing but when you're with things failing but when you're with things failing but when you're getting into organizations that are call getting into organizations that are call getting into organizations that are call it 10 million ARR like they don't want it 10 million ARR like they don't want it 10 million ARR like they don't want to be tinkering and playing around with to be tinkering and playing around with to be tinkering and playing around with things like they want things to work and things like they want things to work and things like they want things to work and what I've noticed in 26 25 was a lot of what I've noticed in 26 25 was a lot of what I've noticed in 26 25 was a lot of tinkering 26 people are like AI is a tinkering 26 people are like AI is a tinkering 26 people are like AI is a thing it's going to stay here it's here thing it's going to stay here it's here thing it's going to stay here it's here to happen but if you don't have a real to happen but if you don't have a real to happen but if you don't have a real story around and how you're going to story around and how you're going to story around and how you're going to show me how you're going to execute like show me how you're going to execute like show me how you're going to execute like yeah I may try your product but I'm not yeah I may try your product but I'm not yeah I may try your product but I'm not going to be in it for the long going to be in it for the long going to be in it for the long >> and they're all like overlapping like >> and they're all like overlapping like >> and they're all like overlapping like the amount of techn technology at the AI the amount of techn technology at the AI the amount of techn technology at the AI native world is like it's because this native world is like it's because this native world is like it's because this this the simpler things are becoming this the simpler things are becoming this the simpler things are becoming very easy to replicate and so they're very easy to replicate and so they're very easy to replicate and so they're making it I don't know I I I find making it I don't know I I I find making it I don't know I I I find similar products coming out to the similar products coming out to the similar products coming out to the market all the time and I'm like okay market all the time and I'm like okay market all the time and I'm like okay this is like the same thing with like a this is like the same thing with like a this is like the same thing with like a bit of a different twist to it. bit of a different twist to it. bit of a different twist to it. >> Yeah.

So, are you biased towards >> Yeah. So, are you biased towards >> Yeah. So, are you biased towards companies and orgs that companies and orgs that companies and orgs that aren't trying to aren't trying to aren't trying to just be the cheaper or easier just be the cheaper or easier just be the cheaper or easier replacement for X, but using that as replacement for X, but using that as replacement for X, but using that as like like like um what was your entry fee? Right.

Of um what was your entry fee? Right. Of um what was your entry fee? Right.

Of course, we're doing that, but we're course, we're doing that, but we're course, we're doing that, but we're actually going to go further further actually going to go further further actually going to go further further than you could um before. Right? So in than you could um before. Right?

So in than you could um before. Right? So in and even in internal processes and stuff and even in internal processes and stuff and even in internal processes and stuff like if I'm just replacing something like if I'm just replacing something like if I'm just replacing something with an AI but doing the same thing like with an AI but doing the same thing like with an AI but doing the same thing like I'm doing a disservice like how like I'm doing a disservice like how like I'm doing a disservice like how like let's one here. Yeah.

let's one here. Yeah. let's one here. Yeah.

>> Who's doing it who's doing it really >> Who's doing it who's doing it really >> Who's doing it who's doing it really well? well? well? >> Um >> Um >> Um >> what are you in love with right now?

>> what are you in love with right now? >> what are you in love with right now? >> What am I in love with? Oh text wise.

>> What am I in love with? Oh text wise. >> What am I in love with? Oh text wise.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Oh my god.

Um I love Common Room big >> Oh my god. Um I love Common Room big >> Oh my god. Um I love Common Room big time. time.

time. um they have a really good job at um um they have a really good job at um um they have a really good job at um identity resolution and it had like and identity resolution and it had like and identity resolution and it had like and you put into it your ICP and your you put into it your ICP and your you put into it your ICP and your personas and everything like that. So personas and everything like that. So personas and everything like that.

So it's got that it's got that it's got that I the biggest problem with AI right now I the biggest problem with AI right now I the biggest problem with AI right now is like like containering is like like containering is like like containering and in organizing the data um and aiming and in organizing the data um and aiming and in organizing the data um and aiming certain things at different things. certain things at different things. certain things at different things. Did that make sense?

Anyway, um but Did that make sense? Anyway, um but Did that make sense? Anyway, um but having but I find myself putting the having but I find myself putting the having but I find myself putting the same things in again and again again and same things in again and again again and same things in again and again again and then a scale. Okay.

Like I'm at a scale then a scale. Okay. Like I'm at a scale then a scale. Okay.

Like I'm at a scale but like one anyway uh but they do a but like one anyway uh but they do a but like one anyway uh but they do a really good job of having all those really good job of having all those really good job of having all those things and they it's like uh it's things and they it's like uh it's things and they it's like uh it's already pre-trained for those specific already pre-trained for those specific already pre-trained for those specific things that you need in sales. So I love things that you need in sales. So I love things that you need in sales. So I love that.

Um another one that I am that. Um another one that I am that. Um another one that I am absolutely loving it's civil. S Y B I L absolutely loving it's civil.

S Y B I L absolutely loving it's civil. S Y B I L L. Um it's sort of like it's everything L. Um it's sort of like it's everything L.

Um it's sort of like it's everything >> conversational intelligence. It's >> conversational intelligence. It's >> conversational intelligence. It's everything you wanted gong to be.

everything you wanted gong to be. everything you wanted gong to be. >> Yeah, that that's I I I I won't rain on >> Yeah, that that's I I I I won't rain on >> Yeah, that that's I I I I won't rain on your parade. I I that's a space that's your parade.

I I that's a space that's your parade. I I that's a space that's near and dear to my heart. Um I think near and dear to my heart. Um I think near and dear to my heart.

Um I think Cibil does some things I I agree with Cibil does some things I I agree with Cibil does some things I I agree with you in >> everything you wanted Gong to be. I >> everything you wanted Gong to be. I >> everything you wanted Gong to be. I think I used to be the biggest Gong fan.

think I used to be the biggest Gong fan. think I used to be the biggest Gong fan. I want to be careful here. I used to be I want to be careful here.

I used to be I want to be careful here. I used to be the biggest Gong fanboy on the planet. the biggest Gong fanboy on the planet. the biggest Gong fanboy on the planet.

It was my dream company. I wanted to It was my dream company. I wanted to It was my dream company. I wanted to work for them more than anything else.

work for them more than anything else. work for them more than anything else. And I think they are the OGs of what And I think they are the OGs of what And I think they are the OGs of what great marketing looks like and no one great marketing looks like and no one great marketing looks like and no one could ever take that away from them. could ever take that away from them.

could ever take that away from them. Devin Reed built an incredible brand. I Devin Reed built an incredible brand. I Devin Reed built an incredible brand.

I think the product think the product think the product >> I'm sorry >> I'm sorry >> I'm sorry >> Chris Orla. Got to get >> Chris Orla. Got to get >> Chris Orla. Got to get >> Yeah.

Chris Orla, Udy, all of them. Um, >> Yeah. Chris Orla, Udy, all of them. Um, >> Yeah.

Chris Orla, Udy, all of them. Um, the product was the best thing ever. the product was the best thing ever. the product was the best thing ever.

>> Um, I think there are so many better >> Um, I think there are so many better >> Um, I think there are so many better alternatives out there right now. And I alternatives out there right now. And I alternatives out there right now. And I I will take a lot of [ __ ] for this from I will take a lot of [ __ ] for this from I will take a lot of [ __ ] for this from the gong haters.

I don't care. I've said the gong haters. I don't care. I've said the gong haters.

I don't care. I've said it publicly for a long time. Spending it publicly for a long time. Spending it publicly for a long time.

Spending money on gong is a fool's game right now money on gong is a fool's game right now money on gong is a fool's game right now in my opinion and I will die on that in my opinion and I will die on that in my opinion and I will die on that hill. hill. hill. >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> Yeah, >> sorry Dale.

It might cost us a sponsor >> sorry Dale. It might cost us a sponsor >> sorry Dale. It might cost us a sponsor or two here or there, but or two here or there, but or two here or there, but >> yeah, I'm uh I'm not owned, so I will >> yeah, I'm uh I'm not owned, so I will >> yeah, I'm uh I'm not owned, so I will say Gong is absolutely cooked. Zoom say Gong is absolutely cooked.

Zoom say Gong is absolutely cooked. Zoom Info's days are numbered. Um Info's days are numbered. Um Info's days are numbered.

Um >> Oo, that's a hot take. That's a very hot >> Oo, that's a hot take. That's a very hot >> Oo, that's a hot take. That's a very hot take.

Um interesting one. So Zoom Info's take. Um interesting one. So Zoom Info's take.

Um interesting one. So Zoom Info's days are numbered. I I go back and forth days are numbered. I I go back and forth days are numbered.

I I go back and forth on this. So I I think data is a on this. So I I think data is a on this. So I I think data is a commodity.

Um I think data is a dime a commodity. Um I think data is a dime a commodity. Um I think data is a dime a dozen. I think there are so many places dozen.

I think there are so many places dozen. I think there are so many places to get it cheaper and better and we do to get it cheaper and better and we do to get it cheaper and better and we do like I'm in love with Freckle right now. like I'm in love with Freckle right now. like I'm in love with Freckle right now.

I'm in love with Orange Slice right now. I'm in love with Orange Slice right now. I'm in love with Orange Slice right now. Um neither of which use Zoom.

I think Um neither of which use Zoom. I think Um neither of which use Zoom. I think Zoom Info is trying to do better. They Zoom Info is trying to do better.

They Zoom Info is trying to do better. They brought over Molly Bowdensteiner to brought over Molly Bowdensteiner to brought over Molly Bowdensteiner to leave their rev red revops and she is leave their rev red revops and she is leave their rev red revops and she is one of my favorite human beings on the one of my favorite human beings on the one of my favorite human beings on the planet. Um, but the product itself, I planet. Um, but the product itself, I planet.

Um, but the product itself, I think what they're trying to do, sadly, think what they're trying to do, sadly, think what they're trying to do, sadly, might be too late. I think had they done might be too late. I think had they done might be too late. I think had they done it a year ago, um, fantastic, but like it a year ago, um, fantastic, but like it a year ago, um, fantastic, but like what they're trying to do now is like I what they're trying to do now is like I what they're trying to do now is like I I don't know.

And they're really [ __ ] I don't know. And they're really [ __ ] I don't know. And they're really [ __ ] expensive. expensive.

expensive. >> Exactly. And even clay is outdated at >> Exactly. And even clay is outdated at >> Exactly.

And even clay is outdated at this point. this point. this point. >> Now, that's a really hot take.

Um, tell >> Now, that's a really hot take. Um, tell >> Now, that's a really hot take. Um, tell me tell me more about that. My issue me tell me more about that.

My issue me tell me more about that. My issue with clay, why I went freckle versus with clay, why I went freckle versus with clay, why I went freckle versus clay, is I just I feel you need a clay, is I just I feel you need a clay, is I just I feel you need a master's degree to understand clay and master's degree to understand clay and master's degree to understand clay and you have to be so dedicated to it. Where you have to be so dedicated to it. Where you have to be so dedicated to it.

Where freckle does arguably the same and I was freckle does arguably the same and I was freckle does arguably the same and I was able to pick it up in 27 minutes. able to pick it up in 27 minutes. able to pick it up in 27 minutes. >> Oh man, I think you're going to have to >> Oh man, I think you're going to have to >> Oh man, I think you're going to have to show me freckle after this because show me freckle after this because show me freckle after this because >> yeah, would love to >> yeah, would love to >> yeah, would love to >> not a sponsor, not paid.

I genuinely >> not a sponsor, not paid. I genuinely >> not a sponsor, not paid. I genuinely like the product. like the product.

like the product. >> Yeah, say like I I actually am sort of >> Yeah, say like I I actually am sort of >> Yeah, say like I I actually am sort of sponsored by Clay, but >> Oops. >> Oops. >> Oops.

>> Oops. >> Oops. >> Oops. Um, Um, Um, uh, I haven't they haven't talked to me uh, I haven't they haven't talked to me uh, I haven't they haven't talked to me in a while, but sometime sometimes like in a while, but sometime sometimes like in a while, but sometime sometimes like $900 ends up in my PayPal.

Um, $900 ends up in my PayPal. Um, $900 ends up in my PayPal. Um, >> not really. >> not really.

>> not really. >> I I I I would like 900 bucks in my >> I I I I would like 900 bucks in my >> I I I I would like 900 bucks in my PayPal. PayPal. PayPal.

>> So, I'm not not really sure what that >> So, I'm not not really sure what that >> So, I'm not not really sure what that is, but um, no, it's like you said, it's is, but um, no, it's like you said, it's is, but um, no, it's like you said, it's it's it's really difficult. Like the it's it's really difficult. Like the it's it's really difficult. Like the loan cap is really high.

the the Carl loan cap is really high. the the Carl loan cap is really high. the the Carl stud mistakes is like outrageous like stud mistakes is like outrageous like stud mistakes is like outrageous like uh and it's just it's slow like I don't uh and it's just it's slow like I don't uh and it's just it's slow like I don't have to try to update things it's like have to try to update things it's like have to try to update things it's like hello like I'll come back in later it's hello like I'll come back in later it's hello like I'll come back in later it's like oh like yeah we were doing that like oh like yeah we were doing that like oh like yeah we were doing that like like like >> wake up >> wake up >> wake up >> but but this this is the problem with >> but but this this is the problem with >> but but this this is the problem with technology like let's go back to what we technology like let's go back to what we technology like let's go back to what we just spoke about about how quickly AI is just spoke about about how quickly AI is just spoke about about how quickly AI is changing hi Freddy and what tools to use changing hi Freddy and what tools to use changing hi Freddy and what tools to use um 6 months ago and listen I still think um 6 months ago and listen I still think um 6 months ago and listen I still think clay is a great product but it has its clay is a great product but it has its clay is a great product but it has its it has its place but 6 months ago like it has its place but 6 months ago like it has its place but 6 months ago like clay clay clay clay like we're sitting clay clay clay clay like we're sitting clay clay clay clay like we're sitting here talking about alternatives and this here talking about alternatives and this here talking about alternatives and this is why I think number one certainly us is why I think number one certainly us is why I think number one certainly us at RR and everyone I know is hesitant to at RR and everyone I know is hesitant to at RR and everyone I know is hesitant to sign a one two god forbid three-year sign a one two god forbid three-year sign a one two god forbid three-year contract with anyone contract with anyone contract with anyone >> um number two why seatbased pricing is >> um number two why seatbased pricing is >> um number two why seatbased pricing is getting trumped by usage based pricing getting trumped by usage based pricing getting trumped by usage based pricing while I think it's very hard to while I think it's very hard to while I think it's very hard to implement implement implement Dale and I were just talking about this Dale and I were just talking about this Dale and I were just talking about this this morning with Digital Ocean. Like, this morning with Digital Ocean.

Like, this morning with Digital Ocean. Like, I'll pay for consumption. Like, if I'm I'll pay for consumption. Like, if I'm I'll pay for consumption.

Like, if I'm using it, it's absolutely cheaper than using it, it's absolutely cheaper than using it, it's absolutely cheaper than going and hiring a person. But what I going and hiring a person. But what I going and hiring a person. But what I don't want to do is say, "Well, we have don't want to do is say, "Well, we have don't want to do is say, "Well, we have three seats.

I have to pay for three three seats. I have to pay for three three seats. I have to pay for three seats." I just got a renewal for Lucid seats."

I just got a renewal for Lucid seats." I just got a renewal for Lucid Chart this morning. Dale doesn't even Chart this morning. Dale doesn't even Chart this morning.

Dale doesn't even know this yet. And they want to raise know this yet. And they want to raise know this yet. And they want to raise our price.

And my my question to myself our price. And my my question to myself our price. And my my question to myself is, "What's our alternative?" Because is, "What's our alternative?"

Because is, "What's our alternative?" Because I'm not willing to give them the price I'm not willing to give them the price I'm not willing to give them the price increase they want. increase they want. increase they want.

>> No. Luc L Lucid guys. >> No. Luc L Lucid guys.

>> No. Luc L Lucid guys. Oh, no. Not you guys, but Lucid, if Oh, no.

Not you guys, but Lucid, if Oh, no. Not you guys, but Lucid, if >> No. No. No, I I I I hear you.

There >> No. No. No, I I I I hear you. There >> No.

No. No, I I I I hear you. There there's so many things and technology is there's so many things and technology is there's so many things and technology is moving so fast and this they all tie moving so fast and this they all tie moving so fast and this they all tie directly into RevOps and techstack. Um directly into RevOps and techstack.

Um directly into RevOps and techstack. Um >> and look at like you have you have cloud >> and look at like you have you have cloud >> and look at like you have you have cloud design, you have Google coming out with design, you have Google coming out with design, you have Google coming out with design stuff like design stuff like design stuff like >> you know that um >> you know that um >> you know that um >> ClickUp like these project management >> ClickUp like these project management >> ClickUp like these project management tools like you can vibe code a project tools like you can vibe code a project tools like you can vibe code a project management tool that can do exactly what management tool that can do exactly what management tool that can do exactly what you want because the challenge with some you want because the challenge with some you want because the challenge with some of these bigger products is like they of these bigger products is like they of these bigger products is like they try to be everything to everybody try to be everything to everybody try to be everything to everybody because they have investors and you have because they have investors and you have because they have investors and you have to keep going and building them out. to keep going and building them out. to keep going and building them out.

However, like I here's a hot take. I However, like I here's a hot take. I However, like I here's a hot take. I actually even think CRM is going to go actually even think CRM is going to go actually even think CRM is going to go away.

Like I think people are going to away. Like I think people are going to away. Like I think people are going to start building their own CRM and they're start building their own CRM and they're start building their own CRM and they're going to build it to spec for what they going to build it to spec for what they going to build it to spec for what they need it for and then they're going to need it for and then they're going to need it for and then they're going to move. Like when you get a real good move.

Like when you get a real good move. Like when you get a real good RevOps GPM engineer, like who's going to RevOps GPM engineer, like who's going to RevOps GPM engineer, like who's going to be paying HubSpot and Salesforce and be paying HubSpot and Salesforce and be paying HubSpot and Salesforce and like all these people $150 a user? Like like all these people $150 a user? Like like all these people $150 a user?

Like that's scary to people when you are that's scary to people when you are that's scary to people when you are going to start growing stuff and then going to start growing stuff and then going to start growing stuff and then you're like now I got to configure it you're like now I got to configure it you're like now I got to configure it and I got I got to hire a consultant to and I got I got to hire a consultant to and I got I got to hire a consultant to to build it out and blah blah blah. to build it out and blah blah blah. to build it out and blah blah blah. >> Yeah.

Yeah. I don't know. I think um I I >> Yeah. Yeah.

I don't know. I think um I I >> Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.

I think um I I can only speak for like three month can only speak for like three month can only speak for like three month increments increments increments at this point but um eventually yeah at this point but um eventually yeah at this point but um eventually yeah >> I'm with you. Yeah, eventually, yeah, >> I'm with you. Yeah, eventually, yeah, >> I'm with you. Yeah, eventually, yeah, CRM are will be disrupted.

Um, but not CRM are will be disrupted. Um, but not CRM are will be disrupted. Um, but not yet. Not yet.

Um, I think and I'm I'm yet. Not yet. Um, I think and I'm I'm yet. Not yet.

Um, I think and I'm I'm still telling people to go with either still telling people to go with either still telling people to go with either Salesforce or HubSpot. Salesforce or HubSpot. Salesforce or HubSpot. >> Fantastic to play with, but like if >> Fantastic to play with, but like if >> Fantastic to play with, but like if you're actually building an you're actually building an you're actually building an organization, it's not ready for prime organization, it's not ready for prime organization, it's not ready for prime time.

Um, and yeah. Yeah. And like but time. Um, and yeah.

Yeah. And like but time. Um, and yeah. Yeah.

And like but you can but should you is the question. you can but should you is the question. you can but should you is the question. Like there's Like there's Like there's >> I don't know.

I I I am wondering why is >> I don't know. I I I am wondering why is >> I don't know. I I I am wondering why is Salesforce cost so much and why I can Salesforce cost so much and why I can Salesforce cost so much and why I can configure every single little button configure every single little button configure every single little button that I and then I got to buy other that I and then I got to buy other that I and then I got to buy other technology to do what Salesforce is technology to do what Salesforce is technology to do what Salesforce is supposed to do. supposed to do.

supposed to do. >> Like listen listen I Mark Ben off is >> Like listen listen I Mark Ben off is >> Like listen listen I Mark Ben off is making Salesforce very hard to defend or making Salesforce very hard to defend or making Salesforce very hard to defend or even like at this point. My name is even like at this point. My name is even like at this point.

My name is Jackie. Techstack is my love language. I Jackie. Techstack is my love language.

I Jackie. Techstack is my love language. I get emotionally attached to technology. get emotionally attached to technology.

get emotionally attached to technology. Like some of some of the heat I have for Like some of some of the heat I have for Like some of some of the heat I have for Zoom Info is because of who they are as Zoom Info is because of who they are as Zoom Info is because of who they are as a company. a company. a company.

>> So I'm I'm I'm going to pause here. Here >> So I'm I'm I'm going to pause here. Here >> So I'm I'm I'm going to pause here. Here here's here's what I'd love to do here's here's what I'd love to do here's here's what I'd love to do because sadly we're running up on time.

because sadly we're running up on time. because sadly we're running up on time. I would love to do a whole 45 to 60 I would love to do a whole 45 to 60 I would love to do a whole 45 to 60 minute tech stack tearown with with you. minute tech stack tearown with with you.

minute tech stack tearown with with you. Honestly, hands to God because this is Honestly, hands to God because this is Honestly, hands to God because this is my love language too. Um Dale could my love language too. Um Dale could my love language too.

Um Dale could join. I I'm very curious Dale's opinion, join. I I'm very curious Dale's opinion, join. I I'm very curious Dale's opinion, but he's going to be like, "Adam does but he's going to be like, "Adam does but he's going to be like, "Adam does that.

Adam does that. Adam does that." that. Adam does that.

Adam does that." that. Adam does that. Adam does that."

Although there are certain things he has Although there are certain things he has Although there are certain things he has very strong opinions on. I think that very strong opinions on. I think that very strong opinions on. I think that would be a fantastic episode.

No direct, would be a fantastic episode. No direct, would be a fantastic episode. No direct, but like very real cuz I agree with you. but like very real cuz I agree with you.

but like very real cuz I agree with you. A lot of it isn't just what you build. A lot of it isn't just what you build. A lot of it isn't just what you build.

It's who the f you are as a company. It's who the f you are as a company. It's who the f you are as a company. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. >> Um so I I'm totally game for this. >> Um so I I'm totally game for this.

>> Um so I I'm totally game for this. >> Look at us over the last 20 years. I >> Look at us over the last 20 years. I >> Look at us over the last 20 years.

I mean like if you if if you think renewal mean like if you if if you think renewal mean like if you if if you think renewal or compliance is loyal. No. No. We're or compliance is loyal.

No. No. We're or compliance is loyal. No.

No. We're I'm I'm actually counting down the days. I'm I'm actually counting down the days. I'm I'm actually counting down the days.

Like Like Like >> what? What you mean? If you don't renew, >> what? What you mean?

If you don't renew, >> what? What you mean? If you don't renew, you have to delete all of our data from you have to delete all of our data from you have to delete all of our data from your system unless you were smart enough your system unless you were smart enough your system unless you were smart enough to know that you had to exclude that to know that you had to exclude that to know that you had to exclude that clause. clause.

clause. >> No. One of my clients at the >> No. One of my clients at the >> No.

One of my clients at the >> And we'll sue you for it. >> And we'll sue you for it. >> And we'll sue you for it. >> Yeah.

She was sued. She was the company >> Yeah. She was sued. She was the company >> Yeah.

She was sued. She was the company was sued. They do that. Like people say, was sued.

They do that. Like people say, was sued. They do that. Like people say, "Oh, it's just a No.

"Oh, it's just a No. "Oh, it's just a No. >> Oh, no. >> Oh, no.

>> Oh, no. >> I I know. I know fractional people who >> I I know. I know fractional people who >> I I know.

I know fractional people who have worked for them who have been sued. have worked for them who have been sued. have worked for them who have been sued. Okay, we've got to go to rapid fire Okay, we've got to go to rapid fire Okay, we've got to go to rapid fire otherwise we are going to go on a total otherwise we are going to go on a total otherwise we are going to go on a total tangent.

We will schedule a 45 to 60 tangent. We will schedule a 45 to 60 tangent. We will schedule a 45 to 60 minute techstack podcast only. Um I love minute techstack podcast only.

Um I love minute techstack podcast only. Um I love it. All right, let's move to rapid fire. it.

All right, let's move to rapid fire. it. All right, let's move to rapid fire. What is the most misleading gotomarket What is the most misleading gotomarket What is the most misleading gotomarket metric that people obsess about?

metric that people obsess about? metric that people obsess about? >> MQLs. >> MQLs.

>> MQLs. >> [ __ ] yeah. >> [ __ ] yeah. >> [ __ ] yeah.

>> What do you mean is an MQL? >> What do you mean is an MQL? >> What do you mean is an MQL? >> I hate that term.

Harder problem, >> I hate that term. Harder problem, >> I hate that term. Harder problem, visibility or execution? visibility or execution?

visibility or execution? >> Wait, say that again. >> Wait, say that again. >> Wait, say that again.

>> Harder of problem, visibility or >> Harder of problem, visibility or >> Harder of problem, visibility or execution? execution? execution? >> Visibility.

>> What's one tool companies rely on too >> What's one tool companies rely on too >> What's one tool companies rely on too much much much >> or type of tool if we don't want to name >> or type of tool if we don't want to name >> or type of tool if we don't want to name like a like a like a >> Oh, like a like a sales engagement >> Oh, like a like a sales engagement >> Oh, like a like a sales engagement platform. platform. platform. >> Cool.

Agree. >> Cool. Agree. >> Cool.

Agree. >> Um, >> Um, >> Um, one thing you'd fix in most staff one thing you'd fix in most staff one thing you'd fix in most staff companies companies companies the SDR to AE handoff the SDR to AE handoff the SDR to AE handoff >> and and AE to and CS like same same. >> and and AE to and CS like same same. >> and and AE to and CS like same same.

>> No, they don't they don't let us do >> No, they don't they don't let us do >> No, they don't they don't let us do that. Like CS is just ignored. Like that. Like CS is just ignored.

Like that. Like CS is just ignored. Like >> Jackie, what what's one habit that >> Jackie, what what's one habit that >> Jackie, what what's one habit that builds go to market clarity? >> Shamelessness.

>> Shamelessness. >> Shamelessness. M M M >> like own the f up. Like own it.

Be like, >> like own the f up. Like own it. Be like, >> like own the f up. Like own it.

Be like, "Oh, that was me. That did not work. "Oh, that was me. That did not work.

"Oh, that was me. That did not work. What are we trying to do now?" I see What are we trying to do now?"

I see What are we trying to do now?" I see people like 10 toes down digging graves people like 10 toes down digging graves people like 10 toes down digging graves because they made some weird decision a because they made some weird decision a because they made some weird decision a year ago and it's like, "Buddy, year ago and it's like, "Buddy, year ago and it's like, "Buddy, >> I just I broke I broke something at a >> I just I broke I broke something at a >> I just I broke I broke something at a client the other day and like it really client the other day and like it really client the other day and like it really broke something and I was like, "Listen, broke something and I was like, "Listen, broke something and I was like, "Listen, I did it. I'll fix it, but stop I did it. I'll fix it, but stop I did it.

I'll fix it, but stop searching. It was me." searching. It was me."

searching. It was me." >> Yeah. Yeah.

I will I will fully own my >> Yeah. Yeah. I will I will fully own my >> Yeah. Yeah.

I will I will fully own my fups because it it makes us better. fups because it it makes us better. fups because it it makes us better. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Well, it makes you human as well. Um, >> Well, it makes you human as well.

Um, >> Well, it makes you human as well. Um, last one as we wrap this up. Dream last one as we wrap this up. Dream last one as we wrap this up.

Dream vacation destination. vacation destination. vacation destination. >> I don't go to Fiji.

>> I don't go to Fiji. >> I don't go to Fiji. >> Fiji. >> Fiji.

>> Fiji. My daughter keeps telling me to go to My daughter keeps telling me to go to My daughter keeps telling me to go to the Maldes because they're going to be the Maldes because they're going to be the Maldes because they're going to be underwater soon. Should they? underwater soon.

Should they? underwater soon. Should they? >> Oh, it's the other place.

The Sey >> Oh, it's the other place. The Sey >> Oh, it's the other place. The Sey Shells. Shells.

Shells. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.

>> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yeah.

Maybe we should do a RR ATM um >> Yeah. Maybe we should do a RR ATM um >> Yeah. Maybe we should do a RR ATM um retreat retreat retreat >> and talk about tech stack. >> and talk about tech stack.

>> and talk about tech stack. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah.

Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Do a do a pterodon in the maldi.

>> Do a do a pterodon in the maldi. >> Do a do a pterodon in the maldi. >> I'm game. I love it.

Jackie Ley activate >> I'm game. I love it. Jackie Ley activate >> I'm game. I love it.

Jackie Ley activate the magic. Where can people learn to go the magic. Where can people learn to go the magic. Where can people learn to go more about ATM?

more about ATM? more about ATM? >> I am very fun on LinkedIn. Uh Jackie uh >> I am very fun on LinkedIn.

Uh Jackie uh >> I am very fun on LinkedIn. Uh Jackie uh LinkedIn.com in uh it's just Jackie LinkedIn.com in uh it's just Jackie LinkedIn.

com in uh it's just Jackie Linhy. J a c i l e a h y. Uh, and if Linhy. J a c i l e a h y.

Uh, and if Linhy. J a c i l e a h y. Uh, and if you're in Pavilion or Women in Revenue you're in Pavilion or Women in Revenue you're in Pavilion or Women in Revenue or Operators Guild, I am in those or Operators Guild, I am in those or Operators Guild, I am in those Slacks. I live and breathe in those Slacks.

I live and breathe in those Slacks. I live and breathe in those Slack orgs. So, you can find me there, Slack orgs. So, you can find me there, Slack orgs.

So, you can find me there, too. too. too. >> Awesome.

Thanks for joining the show. >> Awesome. Thanks for joining the show. >> Awesome.

Thanks for joining the show. >> Thank you.