Drive IMPACT Through Customer and Brand Evangelism ft. Randi Deckard | Revenue Reimagined Ep. 030

Randi Deckard, SVP of Client Engagement at Besler, emphasizes the transition from a traditional sales or CS role into becoming a true brand and customer evangelist. She argues that traditional alignment isn't enough; true cross-functional collaboration within a 'customer ecosystem' is required to drive real business impact. By acting as a liaison between the market and the internal team, revenue leaders can ensure their product roadmap actually aligns with customer realities. A core piece of Randi's philosophy is that discovery never truly ends—even long after the contract is signed. She stresses the importance of pushing back and saying 'no' to clients to build genuine trust, acting as an advisor rather than a simple order-taker. She also openly shares her experience with 'shiny object syndrome,' reflecting on a time she left a great culture for a C-suite title and money, only to return to her previous company as a boomerang employee with deeper, hard-won insights. Finally, she highlights the delicate balance between raw data and business context. While being data-driven is essential, relying solely on numbers without understanding the operational reality and business ecosystem can lead to blind spots. Sales leaders must understand the full go-to-market picture, including marketing and product, to avoid manipulating data to fit a false narrative.

Discussed in this episode

• The critical difference between simply aligning departments and actively collaborating across the entire customer ecosystem.
• Why the trusted advisor role requires delivering bad news promptly with transparent, actionable solutions.
• The necessity of continuous discovery throughout the customer lifecycle to stay ahead of shifting priorities.
• How pushing back and saying 'no' early in the process prevents sales reps from becoming lifelong customer concierges.
• Randi's personal experience with shiny object syndrome and leaving for a C-suite title only to encounter misaligned leadership.
• The importance of using objective scorecards to evaluate career moves and avoid hearing only what you want to hear.
• Why relying purely on raw data without applying contextual knowledge can lead to manipulated narratives.
• The necessity for revenue leaders to understand the entire business ecosystem, beyond just their functional silos.

Episode highlights

1. 0:00 — Defining Client Engagement
2. 1:45 — Ecosystem vs. Alignment
3. 4:30 — True Brand Evangelism
4. 7:15 — Why customers need to hear no
5. 9:00 — Discovery never ends
6. 12:20 — Shiny Object Syndrome
7. 15:30 — Scorecarding career moves
8. 18:00 — Balancing data with ecosystem context

Key takeaways

• True collaboration requires an ecosystem approach, not just alignment.
• Discovery is a continuous process that never truly ends.
• Build trust by delivering bad news with actionable solutions.
• Customers must hear 'no' to respect your expertise.
• Always combine raw data with deep business context.

Transcript

I always say that I am a client advocate and I will, you know, that is my job is to advocate for the client, advocate for the client, but it's not that they're always right. It's how are we driving impact and are we living up to our brand, what we promise them? Welcome back to another episode of the Revenue Reimagined podcast. We are stoked today, we have Randy Decker with us, who is not only a friend of the show, but an all about incredible go-to market leader.

She is currently the SVP of Client Engagement at Besler. She is a boomerang employee, which we will talk about. She left uh for a little while, about a year was the VP of sales at Intelli Centrix. We'll dig super deep into that.

Talk a little bit about shiny object syndrome, but Randy, welcome to the show. Thanks for being here. Thank you for having me. It's good to uh see you all again.

Thank you, Randy. Appreciate it. So before I ask my first question, define SVP of Client Engagement? Sure.

So I um am basically on the ecosystem of the client and so it is marketing, sales, customer success. In other companies, you know, it would be equivalent to CRO. So anything to do with um the customer and generating revenue, that is falls under my responsibility. Awesome.

So then the question's going to change up a little bit because I usually ask which one, if you had to go to a different part of the GTM lifecycle, where would you go? My question is, where do you find your genius in marketing, sales, or CS? So it it's really if if I could be an event, if I could be anything, I would be an evangelist. Why?

Because it's all about the customer. I love engaging with the customer, learning how they talk, what is valuable to them, what impacts them, and then bringing that back, having that close loop feedback with the organization. And of course, in the ecosystem that happens, but if I could just do one thing, that would be my job is going back and forth. Um, this is what the customer finds impactful, how can we deliver on that?

And that's what I would do. Yeah, I love that. So probably more customer success, but bringing all those learnings back into the sales and marketing realm. Yeah, because you you can't you can't have a good sales process if you don't and conversation if you don't understand how your how your how you can drive impact and how can you be a trusted advisor and challenge the status quo with a client, once again, if you don't understand the value and the impact that you can drive.

Yeah, I I think it's it's, you know, I've I really actually hate the word aligned. Um, because so so so does Dale. Okay. Consider it the biggest thing on our website.

Well, I just it's it's really collaboration, right? And and it's cross-functional, yes, you don't want silos, but there is a there is a difference and I can't remember the podcast guest that you had on, but you guys did talk about the difference between alignment and collaboration, and I wholeheartedly agree. And I always talk about ecosystem because it this all falls under, you know, the the customer ecosystem, and there isn't anyone in the company who isn't in sales or isn't impacting the customer and what they do. And that's why I really like that collaboration cross-functional connotation versus alignment.

No offense to you know, anyone else out there who thinks differently. No, but I I I think what you're saying is important, right? Like we we talk about in we've all been in exact meetings or board meetings and it's like, oh, like we we have to get everyone to align on what the next steps are, and you all have to align and like, okay, we're aligned. Now, go screw yourself.

I'm aligned. We're going to go do it. If we're not collaborating and doing it together, it doesn't matter how aligned we are. Um, so I I agree with you 100%.

You talk about evangelism, um, and I think that's that's something that's super popular right now. Um, I I was on a call this morning with a company who was like, oh, we'd love for you to do evangelism for us. Um, like what what does that mean? Oh, like some paid posts and I I'm different than a lot of folks out there.

I won't do paid posts for products that we don't use at RR. Um, I don't believe in it. I think it'll tarnish our brand. But tell me when you say evangelism, what does that mean to you like in two sentences or less?

Because I think it means very different things to different people. Absolutely, so I'm glad I get the opportunity to define it. So it to me, it's about being a brand ambassador, but also a customer advocate. What drives impact and then having that close loop feedback and cross-functionally collaborating to drive what the company's goals are, right?

But you you can't do that in a in a silo or a vacuum. You have to talk to your customers. Yeah. Not enough people not not enough people do that.

I and that's one thing. I mean, you could we could have a whole episode just on that. You know, I I've I've talked to leaders when I asked them, do you talk to customers? They're like, No.

And I'm like, that is something that I make part of my daily that's a non-negotiable. It's a daily, weekly. Um, and I'm involved with customer advisory input partners. You know, whenever I can talk to customers, I want the good, bad, and ugly as I say it.

Um, but I have trust with my customers, so they will tell me. I love the fact that I'm the first call, even if something goes wrong, I want that. I want that relationship with them. And and the reality is you I I've always learned more from the failures than I have from the successes.

And you and you really get the incantation of what's happening with the customer. If they're like, I, this isn't working or that's not working. And then you may have to dig in a little bit more. Well, tell me what's not working in that process.

And then you find out like what they think isn't working isn't really the problem. It's really something else. Yeah. And and and that is, you know, communication and clarity is key, right?

Always. And and there's perceptions and uh things that are perceived and or things that, you know, what, you know, has blown my mind away is when there's been an issue and in in in the conversation, just like you you mentioned, Dale, often times, what the what they state the problem is, but when you drill down, I'm always like, I'm the I'm the person who drives everyone crazy. Why? Well, well, tell me more.

Why? Tell me more. I mean, that's the scientists in me is like, I ask a lot of questions because I want to understand. When you drill down, it's Well, it could also be the parent in you, right?

It could also be the parent. It's like, you have to ask the kid five like, they're always asking you why, why? And then like, you got to do the same thing. But in in and and this is why I I I talk about my scientist background really helping me because we're always questioning to and seeking to understand.

And I think that's another thing is really seeking to understand. And, you know, everyone talks about actively listening and but so many people really fail to seek to understand truly. And that is, you know, once again, that could be a whole other episode. You're you're spot on because people say they listen.

People say they hear you. Mhm. But they don't. They hear what they want to hear.

And because they're not trying to, to your point, seek to understand, really know where are you coming from? Why are you saying this? So you said something that I I actually wrote down because it's super important to me. You said your customers trust you.

That they're willing to give you the feedback because they trust you. I think if you were to ask a lot of sales professionals, be it AEs, managers, directors, VPs, C-levels, they'd tell you, oh, I have a great relationship with my customers. Of course, they trust me. But they don't.

And when you look at like Challenger sale, there's there's a reason they say that relationship builders are like the worst type of sales people because it's this one-way relationship, right? Like, I if I if you want me to do something, I do it and you call me and ask me for all these favors. So I think we have this great relationship until I need you to do something and I don't, like Dale still hasn't sent me my Stanley Revenue Reimagined Cup. I haven't got one either.

But that's why that's why I put it up here so that he was actually say something. How do you how do you build that trust with customers as a senior level leader? Because that's hard, right? You're you're not Right yet.

talking to them all day. Well, I mean, you are but like, how do you do it? Right. So I and I and I and I want to define what I define what I think a trusted advisor is.

A trusted advisor is someone, you know, that that, you know, I always say that I am a client advocate and I will, you know, that is my job is to advocate for the client, advocate for the client, but it's not that they're always right. It's how are we driving impact and are we living up to our brand, what we promise them, you know, whatever the SLA is, whatever the the, you know, whatever we've agreed to, and I am transparent, you know, whether it is something that is supposed to ship and hasn't. I will be the first person on the phone to say, I know that we talked about this, and I know that this is how this is going to impact your business, and I come with a solution. This is how we're going to have this is how we're going to deal with it until we can get to Y.

This is our commitment to you. So people trust me because I follow up and even when things are not going right, I don't ignore the situation and I am transparent. Like there are times when, absolutely, things have gone wrong, right? I'm the first one to pick up the phone and have that conversation, and not just like, yeah, I know we have a problem.

I'm coming to them with solutions of of how we can, you know, manage this relationship and partnership. So, you know, it is a blip in the overall scheme of things. And that's how I view a trusted advisor. And that is why I believe I do get those phone calls, you know, um, where people are, you know, have had issues that they're they're really upset with, upset with the organization.

I call and and more often than not, you know, we talked already a little bit about perceptions. When you actually get down to it, what they're calling me, what they're mad about, often is not the thing, it's things that have have, you know, built up. And we all know, we all know, because we all do this, it takes a lot, you know, to, you always remember like the things that have gone wrong. And so they'll bring those up.

And like, so it's my job, you know, in those conversations like, like, okay, those things we fixed, we took care of, but what is the issue now, right? And I don't know if anyone has had, you know, I'm sure you can relate to that, right? People, you know, whether it's YouTube, marriage, whatever, we always remember, we have we're an elephant when it comes to the bad things, right? We never let that shit go.

Oops, I just I just heard. No, we we we we curse all the time on the show. You're not hurting anyone's feelings. We we have that little explicit tag in in our podcast.

I don't think I've ever done that like on public podcast yet, so that's why. Oh good. Um, one of the things you mentioned Randy was the customer's not always right, right? And but in this world of like trying to satiate the customer all the time, we always think that the customer's right, or that's the perception that the company wants to put out.

When like behind the scenes, they're kind of saying the customer's wrong. I actually have a philosophy that I think the customer wants some resistance. Like, I don't think they always want to be right. I think they just have a resistance around the way we're portraying it to them.

So, they may not be right, but how do we get them to a place of understanding, this may be something better for you. And it's not only at the end when you have the customer, it could be in the in the beginning in the sales process. What I always try to tell sales reps or marketing, like, the customer needs to hear no before you get the contract, because you're gonna be the the sales concierge for the rest of your life. Yeah.

And and to me, it's managing expectations and and how you how you how you frame things. I I think are, you know, extremely important, you know, throughout the sales process, but also when you're manage as you manage the customer. Acting with integrity, right? And I think a customer respects us more when, you know, they ask for something.

I'm like, no, that is not on the road map, and here's why. It's our belief that, you know, in talking to XYZ customers, this isn't what it's it's a nice to have, but this is more important and this has more impact to the business. Do you agree? Get buy-in.

Yeah. I love that. So, I always talk about discovery and buy-in constantly. That never goes away.

Ever, ever, ever. Yeah, that's the other thing. People they're like, ah, we're done with the sale. We're not going to do discovery.

No. You gotta keep going, right? Never. Yes, yes.

Because things change. It never ends. It never ends. Whether it is, you know, they have something, um, new priorities, they get new staff, they've implemented new technology.

You name it. You know, there's something always changing, and if if you are not having those conversations, someone else will. Um, and that is one thing is like, it it's our job in this partnership to to stay on top of and find out, you know, continually what their priorities are and and how we can continue the partnership and drive impact. But you have to continually have that discovery.

Always. Um, and managing expectations. And getting agreement and buy-in. I love that.

Preferably with the champion. Yes. Yeah. people buy from people.

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I I I want to I want to talk about shiny object. Yeah. I want to talk about shiny object syndrome. Um, I'm one who's guilty about it.

Uh, of it. Here comes my failure. I I used to chase the shiny object in the golden dollar, um, many, many times. And hindsight being 2020, I never should have had I known then what I know now.

You left Besler for a while. Yeah. You went someplace else. And I'm sure there was good.

Um this isn't a like let's trash a company session, but like, let's talk about why you left. What were you looking for? Cuz you you were looking for something and you came back. You're a boomerang.

Right. I I am. So, you know, at the time I was VP of sales, um, and you know, the way the company was structured, I was like, okay, what's next for me? And I'm I'm a person who does not like to stagnate, and I felt like there was, you know, I I I couldn't really be mentored.

And, you know, what new products were coming, like I I I needed more, right? I love my team. I love the organization. I thought we did a great job for our customers.

So, I met a very charismatic CEO who talked about a new business unit in Tech, which I I love to innovate. Um, that's my science background, and I was super excited to be part of a team that was building. I love to build. And I was super excited about that.

And I'll be honest, there was, you know, some dollars and and a carrot incentive, and well, you know, maybe you want to be chief commercial officer. You're definitely, you know, qualified. So, there was a title. All the things.

But there were some red flags, you know, looking back, um, you know, when I was digging in, like, how did you come up with the number for the new business unit? What are you thinking? And, you know, what how does the board think? And what does the runway look like?

You know, and it's because I heard what I wanted to hear because I wanted to chase a CC sweet title. I wanted more money, let's be frank. Um, and I wanted to build. But, you know, even though that was like the failure on my part, you know, the lessons that I learned there, even though I was only there for a for a year, you know, was number one, it validated.

I knew more than I thought I did. Um, and I don't know if anyone has been in that situation before. Um, but stepping out and actually working in a straight technology company, um, because Besler services and software was really good. And, you know, I I I remember in my, you know, onboarding talking with both product and our customer service support at the time, and no one could articulate to me end to end what our current offering actually did.

And I was like blown away. And I remember talking to the CEO about silos. And, I like, I was like, you know, and and this is like a global company, right? I'm like, how is this how is this even possible?

Um, and, you know, as the year progressed, you know, on the new business unit, there were there were challenges with shipping. And I think we've all been in organizations that had challenges with challenges with shipping, and there were a number of reasons that factored into that. But I knew it was time for me to exit when he when there was decisions being made saying, I don't want you in these conversations. I feel it's distracting to you.

I'm like, no, I need to know where we're at, and I can only sell what's coming in a quarter. I can't sell continually sell the future. Um, and and because that's not just it's my reputation, it's the company's reputation. And so that was I I think it was a really good lesson for me because I got excited by all the carrots.

And I I full-heartedly admit that. Um, and and then when I when I was looking and decided, okay, this this is it for me. I was starting I was talking to startups because I love to build. Um, I've never burned a bridge, and so, um, I I had coffee with my, you know, former COO, and I told him what I was doing.

He's like, don't. He goes, please come back. I you know, you you can do anything because you have this mindset that everything is figure-out-able. He goes, come back and and run a service line.

Um, and and that didn't last very long. You know, you know, once again, fool me, like within like two months, I was back over marketing, sales, and customer success. So, I I say fool me, there were some changes in the organization that made that possible. But the reason I came back was for a different challenge and because I was getting to build something.

And in my in my role now, I'm, you know, I still am very, um, you know, that cross-functional collaboration, what we're building, um, we have we have some new, um, you know, software coming out. And stepping out to Intellicentrics really helped me, and I felt like I gave really good advice, especially on the product side, even though that's not my role, but, you know, um, so that was the good part of stepping out is having that additional experience and bringing that back to the organization. So, with that experience that you had, what would you recommend for people that are like going through that process? Like, because it's hard, because one of the things I heard was, like, you knew better.

You kind of knew your inner voice, but you only heard what you wanted to hear. So, how do you get away from, like, just hearing what you want to hear and really getting the facts down? I should have listened to my own advice. And my own advice is whenever, you know, I'm going through something like this or my kids, is like, scorecard, like, write it down, pros and cons, what are the flags?

And, you know, what are your concerns? And if I would have done that, I would have walked away. You know. But I was ready to make a move and and have a change.

And I and I'll be honest, probably a little desperate for that. At the time, I I felt like I was stagnating. And so, I I I jumped too quickly. And and so it it's really about being thoughtful, intentional, and and score carding.

And I know this, right? Because I coach on it. But, hey, I'm human. I'm a work in progress, and I fully admit my failures.

And that was definitely one of them. We all are. We all are working. Absolutely.

Anyone who says they aren't is lying. And so, one of the things that you were talking about was the data elements. So, the score carding of it. And that's the same thing we talk about with founders all the time.

They like to go by their gut. I believe this. I feel that. Um, and they're trying to, like, I think they're trying to tell themselves a story that you were kind of telling yourself.

So, we always talk about, what's the data? What's the conversion rates? What's the average deal size? You know, let's get the data elements together.

But you can also go too far in the data side. Like, how do you balance the data and your gut when you're running the business? Yeah, so I think it's it's, you know, being data-driven, but having, I think the missing missing part and and where the art comes in is the context, right? So, you need to understand the ecosystem.

You need to understand how your business work, how your customer operates, how you deliver, what are, you know, the gaps or biases or potential blind spots. And and if you just look at the data, because as someone who's a scientist, I I'll tell you, as a research scientist, and I I'm not doing this anymore, but I can manipulate the data to tell the story that I want. 100% you can. Which is which is what I think you were trying to get at.

Of course, you can. Right, exactly. So, it's always con it's it's always that context and that's where, you know, I think if you don't understand your ecosystem, you can get into trouble. Yep.

And if you're not honest with yourself. And so, it's it's the balance is data and context plus critical thinking, does all of this come together to make sense? What am I missing? You know, have I looked at everything?

It a 360 view. Do I have any blind spots? What other gaps? And really approaching it intentionally, Um, and looking around the data and other things and having those conversations, and but also you have to understand your business.

And and that's why I've I another thing that I think some leaders make this mistake. If you're VP just VP of sales, I shouldn't say just if you're VP of sales and you're being you have your blinders on and you're only focused on your role and what you do, I I I I think that you miss some of that context, right? And that's why I love having either responsibility over the ecosystem, and even if I don't have responsibility, I'm gonna learn it because it makes me better at what I do. And that's why I was really good when I was just VP of sales is because I knew the business better than anyone.

I knew what our customers, and I also knew our business unit economics. Even though it wasn't my job, I knew that. And that's what made me good at my job is because I did more and looked at the whole picture. So important.

It's I I've always said that when you look at a good VP of sales, VP of marketing, whatever it is, it's the people who certainly are experts in their business units, but take the time to understand the broader part of the business. You cannot be a good VP of sales if you don't understand marketing, success, product, everything else. You can't be a great uh product leader if you don't understand the sales process and the sales flow. It it all ties together.

So I love that you brought that up. We we are at that point that I feel Dale has something really important he wants to ask you, and I don't want to overstep on on his timing, otherwise, I'm gonna get a nasty text saying, my turn, my turn, my turn. I kid. Sort of.

Randy, so we believe a lot in give the get at um at Revenue Reimagined. And you you have an awesome gift, so let the audience know what you'd like to give. Yeah, so, um, I am giving away five annual memberships to um, Leslie Vatez's book of business Club. Yep, five.

Um, and, you know, uh, I'll let Dale and uh, Adam handle how that gets worked out. And then the other thing I'd like to offer is, um, you know, some time. You know, anyone who is, you know, struggling with the data and the ecosystem, you know, I've advised, you know, startups, of course, um, you know, what I do in my day-to-day. I'm happy to have a conversation because I think sometimes, you know, um, we can get in our own heads and it's good to compare and validate with someone.

Sometimes having an outside perspective can be super helpful. Love that. And that book club's amazing. You're awesome.

It is. It is. And and there's a range of. So, and it's it's the relationships that I've made out of that are phenomenal, so.

Adam doesn't read. I I was just gonna say Dale, I thought that you only read those things that have like the pictures in them and that like I'm you're talking about a book coupling phenomenon. I'm like, do do is it a comic book club or like a like I I'm very confused. Very, very confused, but we can talk about that.

Let's let's compare audible. Let's compare audible list and see how many books you've you've read. Um, so I don't audible, but we could look at my Kindle, and we could see how many books I read in a year. I I tend to I tend to average close to 100, um, but I I I love I love to read.

I don't like to listen, um, but I do like to read. Um, I feel like you dropped so much for revenue leaders, for founders, for AEs, like there's so much relevance here on how to build, work in, um, understand go-to-market and your customer. And I'm super grateful, um, that you took time to join us today. As we wind down a little bit, um, I'd love to throw a little bit of rapid fire your way.

Okay, bring it on. The the rules here are 10 words or less. Otherwise, a gong comes across and hits Dale in the head. Um We don't want we don't want to we don't want to hit Dale.

I mean, maybe we do. Um all right, here we go. What is the first app you check on your phone when you wake up in the morning? Uh, Slack.

If you had a crystal ball, what's one revenue trend or strategy you predict will take center stage in the next 12 to 18 months? Oh, it's gotta be AI. I know we never touched on that cuz that's my like rabbit hole. And, oh, I'm just gone.

There goes Dale's head, more than 10 words. Oh my gosh. Sorry, Dale. No, no, no, no.

Go ahead. Let's go down the AI route for a minute. I know I know you love to geek out on it. I I do.

And I and and you know, I've built custom bot for um discovery, and I just feel if you are not using AI and finding ways to automate the mundane, and then also leverage it for efficiency, productivity, like doing research, oh my gosh, you're insane. And, yes, AI. So, anyways, I apologize, but you guys hate for that, Dale. You you I couldn't help myself.

I'm I'm with Dale in person tomorrow. You have no idea how bad he's gonna get hit for that. Um You're with Randy tomorrow, too, in person. I I am, but I'm not gonna hit Randy.

Um Well, I might hit back. I I do I do Krav Maga, so I might hit back. So just fair warning. Early early bird or night owl?

Early bird. What is one, um, emoji that you use in your work, uh, what's the most used emoji in your work text? I I I love it. Other than your phone, what's the one tech gadget you can't live without?

Oh my gosh. I guess my work computer or my my computer. Yeah. Okay.

Cool. Final one. Um, dream uh dream vacation destination. Fiji.

Fiji. Nice. Nice. Very nice.

Awesome. I love it. My husband promised me 25 years ago that's where we go. I'm still waiting.

That's a long time. That's a long time. I tease him every year. I have not been to Fiji.

Um, definitely on the list. Randy, thank you so much for joining us today. It was great to chat. Where can people find you?

How could they go get more of your awesome information, your content? LinkedIn is the place to find me. I feel like everyone says that. I need to stop asking this question.

We know where we're gonna find you. I I I'm not on X. Um, you know, I I know some people are doing like the whole TikTok and and gram thing, but I'm I'm LinkedIn. I love it.

Awesome. Awesome. Thank you, Randy. Randy, it was a pleasure.

Thanks so much. Cheers.